Drones and more drones

[LYNX]

we could do this .....well...maybe not us but you get the drift

http://www.disclose.tv/frameset.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fworld%2F2009%2Faug%2F22%2Fus-air-force-drones-pilots-afghanistan

[Maverick]

Yeah, the Airforce also said the era of dog fighting was gone too back in the late 60's. We all know how well that went don't we.

[Shuffler]

You think they recruit from the better AH pilots??   

[MORAY37]

Yeah, the Airforce also said the era of dog fighting was gone too back in the late 60's. We all know how well that went don't we.

Technology was the limiting factor of guided missiles, then, as is today.

Technology however, cannot undo what G-forces do to the human body.

Aerodynamics have progressed to the point where the soft stuff in the cockpit is limiting the airframe's potential. Already most 4.5 and 5th generation fighters have computer limitations put onto control inputs, and the airframe cannot be maxed out, performance-wise.  

 The first nation to put up a highly maneuverable fighter drone, that can pull sustained 15 and 17 G loads, will whip any manned air force, even if they weaponize it only with a shotgun.  Understand, even a highly resistant pilot with training can only pull 9 Gs sustained for a very limited time.  He comes up against something that pulls another 6 or 7 past him......it's literally the difference between a Cessna 172 and the F-22.  

[BoilerDown]

The first nation to put up huge numbers of highly maneuverable inexpensive fighter drones, that can pull sustained 15 and 17 G loads, will whip any manned air force, even if they weaponize it only with a shotgun.

Fixed.

[MORAY37]

Fixed.

I doubt it would take huge numbers.   

[Serenity]

I doubt it would take huge numbers.   

Give a couple good 'ole boys a 12-gauge and get them close... see how long those drones last... Doesn't matter WHAT you have, you will need large numbers, because bullets and buckshot is ALWAYS more plentiful than aeroplanes.

[soda72]

Autonomous swarms of drones preprogrammed to attack on their own is, at the least, unnerving and legally problematic

Where is John Connor when you need him?

 

[Bruv119]

if the US airforce wants my services and are prepared to pay top dollar + send a black helicopter to come get me I'll do it.

 

only condition I use my CH stick.

[Maverick]

Moray,

The ROE has a lot to do with it more than the technology. If you have to get in visual range and make a positive Mk1 eyeball ID of the enemy fighter you are already in guns range, have gone inside of the minimum range for radar guided and possibly heat seeking as well. How you going to eyeball the bad guy from another continent away?

Serenity, I've never known buckshot to get to 2k much less 20k to 40k altitude. You might wanna rethink the parameters of where drones fly, they are not cruise missiles flying NOE. You wanna take on an armed predator with a shotgun or even a rifle? Heck I'd pay money to see that. When you going to sell the tickets? 

[Serenity]

Moray,

The ROE has a lot to do with it more than the technology. If you have to get in visual range and make a positive Mk1 eyeball ID of the enemy fighter you are already in guns range, have gone inside of the minimum range for radar guided and possibly heat seeking as well. How you going to eyeball the bad guy from another continent away?

Serenity, I've never known buckshot to get to 2k much less 20k to 40k altitude. You might wanna rethink the parameters of where drones fly, they are not cruise missiles flying NOE. You wanna take on an armed predator with a shotgun or even a rifle? Heck I'd pay money to see that. When you going to sell the tickets? 

Thats was oversimplified, yes, but what I meant was AAA is still lethal. Doesn't matter if your UAV can pull 15gs, with proper AAA it's still likely to get nailed by a lucky shot.

[Vulcan]

Technology was the limiting factor of guided missiles, then, as is today.

Technology however, cannot undo what G-forces do to the human body.

Aerodynamics have progressed to the point where the soft stuff in the cockpit is limiting the airframe's potential. Already most 4.5 and 5th generation fighters have computer limitations put onto control inputs, and the airframe cannot be maxed out, performance-wise.  

 The first nation to put up a highly maneuverable fighter drone, that can pull sustained 15 and 17 G loads, will whip any manned air force, even if they weaponize it only with a shotgun.  Understand, even a highly resistant pilot with training can only pull 9 Gs sustained for a very limited time.  He comes up against something that pulls another 6 or 7 past him......it's literally the difference between a Cessna 172 and the F-22.  

The problem is sensory device links are not up to play with the required throughput to provide visual information comparable to have a  Mk1 head in the cockpit. Doesn't matter how many G's you can pull if you have zero SA and cannot track your target.

[killjoy1]

Our future enemy could be an air force of drone attack fighters.  Lot less expensive and a real threat to our manned planes.  

Future sorties into enemy territory would have to include drone fighters to fight enemy drone fighters or at least defend our pilots.  Whole new battlefield out there.  

[MORAY37]

The problem is sensory device links are not up to play with the required throughput to provide visual information comparable to have a  Mk1 head in the cockpit. Doesn't matter how many G's you can pull if you have zero SA and cannot track your target.

That's a pretty blanket statement from someone who plays an online fighter game and has to have SA without sensor tracking the bandit constantly, or only reliant on 1D sensory input.  Perhaps I overestimate your virtual piloting ability.    

I'm not saying the human is out of the loop.... but the human is going rapidly out of the cockpit.  The squishy mess we make at 15 G's necessitates it. As well, most of the cost in fighter development now squarely rests on making the aircraft survivable for that squishy ball of meat in the cockpit.  If you took the person out, you could make a better performing and cheaper version.

I don't like it any more than you, but taking the man out of the cockpit and onto the computer is next.

[Vulcan]

That's a pretty blanket statement from someone who plays an online fighter game and has to have SA without sensor tracking the bandit constantly.  Perhaps I overestimate your virtual piloting ability.    

I'm not saying the human is out of the loop.... but the human is going rapidly out of the cockpit.  The squishy mess we make at 15 G's necessitates it. As well, most of the cost in fighter development now squarely rests on making the aircraft survivable for that squishy ball of meat in the cockpit.  If you took the person out, you could make a better performing and cheaper version.

I don't like it any more than you, but taking the man out of the cockpit and onto the computer is next.

Actually I use a VR headset and do need to track the bandit constantly.

What I'm saying is if you take the human out of the cockpit you need to take the data to him (or her). Today's technology doesn't have the fidelity to do that.