Engines runing full blast

[Masherbrum]

Allen Dickerson wrote,

Wow such a witty come back from a professional writer. Is that why you have never been able to hold a job longer than 1 year?
Why is it Allen that you can not hold a job, possibly because of the same attitude towards logic and discussion you display here?
HiTech

LMFAO.   

[Karnak]

Even after that, we have the gauges... I think (actually, I know, as I've used and produced gauges for in-game aircraft) that you CAN make them accurate to type and nationality, and players WON'T get so confused they won't play   Dale says otherwise. He's voting with his cash register, I'm voting with reality.

Actually he is voting for realism too, not his cash register.  It is unrealistic for pilots flying alongside each other to be using different units of measurement.  It adds a confusion element that should not be there.

You are focusing entirely in fidelity to the aircraft.  HiTech is focusing on fidelity to air-to-air combat.  You are getting confused by that or intentionally misunderstanding what has been explained to you.

[Bronk]

LMFAO.   

I agree   

[mtnman]

Having played flight-sims with the airstart/teleport/engagement circle/accelerated time concept, I can honestly say I've found it to be a huge detriment to my enjoyment.  I'd much prefer the smaller map scale, and be required to fly to where I want to go, even with the concessions of auto-level, etc.

I don't want to fly several hours to a target, but I sure don't want to be magically blipped over to it either.  Talk about a massive anti-immersion, anti-realistic "feel".  Ick!

Finding out that a game/sim had that would be enough for me to skip past it, regardless of the other "realistic" aspects.  Concessions to reality will be required in certain areas, as you mention.  That's just a poor way to handle that particular aspect, IMO.

Another "killer" concession would be AI vehicles.  AI ground/ship guns are one thing, because I doubt we'd ever get enough volunteers to man them effectively.  I'm ok with those being AI.  AI planes or GV's?  Nope.  Again, a massive "realism" breaker...  Been there, done that.  It was interesting for a week or two, then BORING.  

I'm also of the opinion that some concessions are important to make the average "new" player successful enough to hang around.  The game is as fun as it is, mainly due to the swarms of people that play it.

Stiglr, if you didn't buy into that, you'd be busy enough to not feel the need to come over and sway the AH folks to come help populate your stagnant arenas.  Busy enough, or you simply wouldn't care whether more people flew your sim or not.  The fact that you were "bored" enough to swing in here speaks volumes!  How could you be so bored with your product that you'd have the time/desire to do that, if your product was so good?

You accuse Dale of making concessions based on his checkbook.  Bravo to him for that!  He needs to balance desire for realism with reality, and I think he's doing a pretty good job of it.  He's smart enough to realize the importance of a loyal, paying, customer base to keep his sim/game interesting, and keep development moving.  I'd much prefer that over a great idea that goes nowhere, because it's no more than a part-time hobby for the developers...  

Do you even have time for this?  Wouldn't your time be better spent working on your own project?  And getting it beyond the Beta phase?

Would I welcome EM?  Yup, I'd love to see it.  I think it would be best to have it as an option like we do for Auto/manual trim, so newer/less experienced folk could transition to it as they desired.  Or else have it set up in a "hyper-realistic" arena, where we could also incorporate wind, night, etc.  Airplane specific units of measure?  Sure, under the same conditions.  I'd hate to see the game suffer or stagnate due to going too realistic for the average Joe, though.

[Saxman]

Stiggie,

Maybe you might want to try FSO and that would be more to your liking. Assuming a squadron would be willing to take you on after this. Hell, I might be willing to just to show you what you're missing out on by going off on the us.

VMF-251 flew two sorties during Bougainville escorting bombers in our Corsairs (B-24s once, B-25s another) that were over 400-mile round-trips ;an hour out and an hour back again from takeoff, form-up, to landing. And yes, we reduced our power levels both for range (we flew both trips on internal only with plenty to spare) and to keep position with our bombers. We've also flown very long-range strikes on several occaisions.

The point is that there's SEVERAL aspects of this game. The focus of the Mains is on short transit times and quick action. If that's not your thing, or you don't like fighting Spitfires from a P-38, then try the Axis vs. Allies arena, Scenarios, Snapshots, and FSO, all of which promote much of what you think the game should be.

[sparow]

Nope....
Because ground crew stuff certainly is out of the scope of a combat sim, I certainly wouldn't want players to have to sit and warm up on the tarmac. Nor would they need to go through a more complex engine start-up than to hit "E" (which simulates in one button press the magnetos, perhaps having ground crew rotate the prop, wobbling the fuel pump, turning on generators, etc.) That's a perfect example of making some gameplay decisions based on how relevant they are to the real reason we play... the combat.

Which takes us tangentially back to the EM argument. Somebody up above talked about some of the mitigating conditions of engines; how real world conditions (maintenance before and after the virtual pilot takes the seat of the cockpit, etc.) have an effect on the condition of the plane you fly. Doesn't it stand to reason that a simulation would not simulate a "ideal world" where an aircraft is "fresh from the factory" but more like standard wartime conditions at the front?

As for transit, well, I know AH doesn't have anything like it, but for very long transit times, we at TW have a cool little device called an engagement circle, which, combined with airstarts, can bring forces together while STILL factoring in fuel usage getting to and from combat. It's a neat little idea... and it keeps TW mods from ever having to use "postage stamp" partial scale maps.

So, we should be expected to have to fly correct distances... but that doesn't mean that if you're doing "B-17s to Berlin" you need to sit in a chilly virtual cockpit for 3 hours each way.

Now, I'm confused... He considers the fine art of starting up a huge piston engine an unnecessary thing? What about the flame outs? Now it's all about what "matters", combat?   And then, he wants to model "standard wartime conditions on the front"?   And the last nail in this man's totally demented vision is the old - I mean oooollldddd - "Scotty beam me up"-warp-speed-jump-to-action used 20 years ago in Microprose's 1942 series???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Pleaaaaaaaase! That's so gamey! Aren't you a "Hard-Core Simmer", a guy willing to pump-up manually a landing gear, that wears a flight suit, gloves, helmets and goggles and puts a fan over the monitor to make the white silk scarf fly?  

OMG...

[ToeTag]

Allen Dickerson Writes A wall of text to say 1 thing.

Allen's form of realism is correct  (as he admits all is a choice) and people should listen to him and him only.

Ill tell you what Allen take a few million of your own money and go create a Flight Sim as you see it should be made. Then come back and talk.

HiTech

Well thats kinda what I was saying....your options are to buy a real plane or make your own game.  Either option will leave poor allen all alone.

I hope you also know that the fact that this thread has reached epic proportions to regular posts, that this guy has found a new calling and a new job.  

by the bye is that your real address?

[Stiglr]

Allen Dickerson wrote,

Wow such a witty come back from a professional writer. Is that why you have never been able to hold a job longer than 1 year?
Why is it Allen that you can not hold a job, possibly because of the same attitude towards logic and discussion you display here?
HiTech

That's really low, Dale, even from YOU.

For one, I don't "hide" behind a handle on the internet. I also don't have anything to hide.

Secondly, my 'real name' and what you posted there is totally irrelevant to the discussion. I don't need to discuss my career path with you, nor do I say anything about yours other than my opinion on the decisions you make on behalf of the sim or game we're discussing (which certainly IS relevant).

I'll request an apology for this... not that I'm expecting one, considering the source.
Maybe I'll settle for just staying on topic. Debate the merits of the topic... you should be able to win with those, if you're correct...

[Masherbrum]

That's really low, Dale, even from YOU.

For one, I don't "hide" behind a handle on the internet. I also don't have anything to hide.

Secondly, my 'real name' and what you posted there is totally irrelevant to the discussion. I don't need to discuss my career path with you, nor do I say anything about yours other than my opinion on the decisions you make on behalf of the sim or game we're discussing (which certainly IS relevant).

I'll request an apology for this... not that I'm expecting one, considering the source.
Maybe I'll settle for just staying on topic. Debate the merits of the topic... you should be able to win with those, if you're correct...

Be gone.   You took cheap shots at HTC from your first post.   If you would have shown "more tact", maybe some would have some sympathy for you.   Instead, you DID hide behind your monitor and even took this discussion back to your band of TW nerds.   But you only tell them all that is needed to make yourself look good.

Widewing has over 3,200 Logged hours and you have 1% of that, if that?   You have no "topic", you've been grasping at straws from the get go. 

[The Fugitive]

That's really low, Dale, even from YOU.

For one, I don't "hide" behind a handle on the internet. I also don't have anything to hide.

Secondly, my 'real name' and what you posted there is totally irrelevant to the discussion. I don't need to discuss my career path with you, nor do I say anything about yours other than my opinion on the decisions you make on behalf of the sim or game we're discussing (which certainly IS relevant).

I'll request an apology for this... not that I'm expecting one, considering the source.
Maybe I'll settle for just staying on topic. Debate the merits of the topic... you should be able to win with those, if you're correct...

I think know who you are and your background is very relevant in this discussion. The more info that comes out about you, the less your "story" seems to stand up. Of course HT's views and background are well known, and seem to support his points far better than yours.

I think its time for you to crawl back into your little hole. You've lost this battle. From reading your posts on the other board, you don't have much of a leg left to stand on there, and may want to rethink your approach to how you deal with other people, some of whom you may be trying to entice to that other "game".

[hitech]

That's really low, Dale, even from YOU.

For one, I don't "hide" behind a handle on the internet. I also don't have anything to hide.

Secondly, my 'real name' and what you posted there is totally irrelevant to the discussion. I don't need to discuss my career path with you, nor do I say anything about yours other than my opinion on the decisions you make on behalf of the sim or game we're discussing (which certainly IS relevant).

I'll request an apology for this... not that I'm expecting one, considering the source.
Maybe I'll settle for just staying on topic. Debate the merits of the topic... you should be able to win with those, if you're correct...

When you sincerely apologize for 10 years of spouting misinformation and maligning my name I will consider an apology.
When you cease to continually throw little barbs in your post I will consider an apology.
When you realize you are in my house, playing with my life and my living and my company ,my employees , my wife, I will consider an apology.
For you this is a hobby, for me it has been my life's work. When you begin to show even a hint of respect I have show you in this entire thread I will consider an apology.
And what does having to post your real name have anything to do with, you continue to use my real name every time you wish to put another dig at me and AH.

Allen , you reap what you sow.

HiTech

[Ack-Ack]

I know I am going to eagerly await Allen's new ultimate realistic flight sim, TAS II.  I wonder if he can get VOSS to help make it, between the both of them they can create the most realistic simulator ever created.


ack-ack

[Stiglr]

All's I can say, "hitech," is that any 'barbs' I put in my posts are on topic and relevant.

And IIRC, I have at times given you a lot of credit for at least creating a popular and successful product. As for your name, you put it out there on your own website, which is really the only reason I happen to know what it is.

If you have to take that personally, that's just a reflection on your character, not mine.

I must say, though, that my remarks can't be that far off the mark to make you resort to this kind of "lower-than-dirt" tactic. You should have been satisfied with the points you've made and how most of your customers are closing ranks behind you.

Apology? To you? You must be kidding.

[fudgums]

I think your an idiot

[minke]

I think its time to lock the thread, so the troll can go back to his bridge..............