pirates shoot at navy helicopter

[gyrene81]

Uh sorry to burst your bubble gum bubble there Westy...real life experience...not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine. And I've seen what can happen when "cooler heads prevail".

People who think "peaceful solutions" following the rules of society will stop violence, need to get some real life experience with people who don't follow the rules of society and rely on violence to get what they want. Then if they make it back alive come tell me in person that the "rules of society with peaceful solutions" is the only way. Again, history proves otherwise.





And Chuck Norris movies suck.

[Masherbrum]

Uh sorry to burst your bubble gum bubble there Westy...real life experience...not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine. And I've seen what can happen when "cooler heads prevail".

People who think "peaceful solutions" following the rules of society will stop violence, need to get some real life experience with people who don't follow the rules of society and rely on violence to get what they want. Then if they make it back alive come tell me in person that the "rules of society with peaceful solutions" is the only way. Again, history proves otherwise.

And Chuck Norris movies suck.

I never said what I did as a "peaceful solution".   But the "cooler heads will prevail" = "a well thought out contingency plan".   Of course f'ups can happen and I hope those Pirates can make peace with themselves soon, because I have no sympathy for them.  

[Babalonian]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews

and we didn't fire back?

 


 

The story I read said they helo crew didn't even know they were being fired at until they reviewed the infrared surveillance video after completing their surveillance flight.  They likely would not of returned fire anyways though, due to the ship in question is holding an estimated 30 hostages.

[batch]

helo crew didn't even know they were being fired

Must be some real observant surveillance..... guess its a good thing they didnt get hit.

[Stalwart]

Perhaps we should sit down with the pirates in a peaceful and diplomatic manner and discuss ways that we might enrich their lives. We could get to the root issue for their anger and give them money in a kinder gentler fashion.

Then when they kill hostages we could just send them more money and ask them if everything is OK. Or perhaps would could offer them some counseling and help them work through their difficult issues in life.

Maybe they just need a timeout and some loving understanding.

We could even invite them to the states for free healthcare. 

[Bradman]

Must be some real observant surveillance..... guess its a good thing they didnt get hit.

There were over a mile away from the ship so trying to spot a small muzzle flash that far away would be pretty tough.

[zack1234]

Why is it that you have the best military hardware in the world yet you cannot build a decent modern car to save your life

[CAP1]

Why is it that you have the best military hardware in the world yet you cannot build a decent modern car to save your life

dunno what you're talkin about there........as we do.

[CAP1]

the point is, that these guys are pushing. they're pushing to see how much they can get away with.

 they fired on a crew from the most powerful nation in the world. if nothing is done, they WILL do it again,,,,,and next time could have much much worse results.

 again, as i keep reminding, i'm not military........but i know we have the manpower, technology, and equipment to make it known to them, well and clear, and in no uncertain terms, that they NEED to stop pushing, and find a new profession, as their continued behavior will result in their removal from this life.

[Westy]

 No bubble burst here in the least nor am I advocating "peaceful solutions."

 I pointed out that a reason they may not have returned fire is because
it's not a pirate ship they were fired on by but a hijacked ship. Whihc
had a hijacked crew somewhere and here's no way for anyone to be sure
that a return of fire would not wound or kill any of the hijacked crew.
Whats so tough to understand about that? I'm all for "intelligent"
solutions and not knuckle dragging, knee jerk responses.

 My second post clearly mocks those who type from the safety of their
keyboard that they want a smashingly aggressive and fatal response by
others regardless of the consequences to innocents.hostages/hijacked
crew. No risk on their part nor any skin  off their nose that's for sure!
 The kind of popsicle who's watched movies like "Navy Seals" just a few
too many times or who have posters of Chuck Norris and Steven Segal
on the wall over their bunk-bed. hugahunks who would in reality toejam thier
pants if they had to be on one of those teams going in or worse one of
the hostages or hijacked crew. 

[Masherbrum]

Yep.   Collateral Damage is in the forefront of the Commanders minds. 

[MORAY37]

I wasn't joking bud. Calm politicians create needless casualties more often than decisive action, history has proven that. Give me 2 Navy seal teams and I guarantee that boat as well as 100 hostages come back.

Please feel free to google 2002 Nord-Ost siege, where cooler heads were not listened to.

Decisive action killed ~200 innocent people.

Maybe you should move to Russia.

[Die Hard]

The Nord-Ost siege action was a stunning success from an operational point of view. Only one hostage was killed by gunfire and all the terrorists were neutralized. The big blunder was not notifying the medical authorities of the chemical agent used during the assault resulting in more than 100 deaths (possibly as many as 200) due to medics not knowing what to do to save them.

[gyrene81]

Please feel free to google 2002 Nord-Ost siege, where cooler heads were not listened to.

Decisive action killed ~200 innocent people.

Maybe you should move to Russia.

And how many has it saved in the long run?


Let's put it into perspective here:

You have a loved one that is in a hostage situation (alone or with others). No government is not willing to negotiate on the terms. It comes down to money and the people holding the hostages are not beyond killing them all because they believe sooner or later the government will break down and commit to their terms. You don't have the money or the means to negotiate anything, nor do you have any political clout. Even if you did have enough money to negotiate for the one person you're concerned about, the chances are they will take your money and add you to the number of hostages anyway, if the military even let you get that close. The military has full intel on the situation and have assets on station ready to strike. They have a well thought out plan. Problem is there is a 50/50 chance that some or all of the hostages will get killed if action is taken. On the other hand there is a 99% chance that some or all of the hostages will be killed if the government doesn't negotiate.

What do you want to happen? The safety of your loved one is not guaranteed regardless of the action taken.


The same scenario has been repeated with increasing frequency over the past 10 years, and the past 18 months have been the worst just because the pirates think they can get away with it. Make it too costly for them and they will either stop or be erradicated.

[MORAY37]

It's amazing what a fisherman will do when he isn't able to feed his family.

That's what's going on in Somalia.

The English spent the better part of 200 years chasing pirates around the Atlantic, Pacific and Caribbean.  It wasn't until there was no longer a business in piracy was it eradicated. Bullets and bombs do not solve this problem, and you can figure that out with a 5th grade education and a short read on historical precedent.