Author Topic: why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..  (Read 1324 times)

Offline HABICHT

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« on: March 05, 2000, 02:24:00 PM »
he 177??
think it would be a great, never modelled, buff. it has got a nice payload and good
defense ability (for a LW bomber).
and there were over 1000 built.
at the ende of war, they stood at their
airfields without fuel.
YES it had problems with the DB606 engines,
but it was used in combat.
pls, give us LW-fans a real buff, not a he111
or ju88, not with all these late war fighters
around.
any comments?

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[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 03-05-2000).]

Offline Hristo

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2000, 02:38:00 PM »
Yes, although with poor service record, it was a great concept.

Why not ?

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[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 03-05-2000).]

Offline Kieren

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2000, 02:44:00 PM »
One possible reasoning for selecting He111 over the He177 would be Scenarios. It is a lot easier to build an historic scenario around the He111 than the He177.  

Offline Duckwing6

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2000, 04:33:00 PM »
and the called it the "Fiegendes Feuerzeug" (Flying lighter) because of it's desasterous habbit of catching fire on the twing engines in one engine cowling ... (my grand uncle flew that beast and had to bail 3 times without being shot at because the thing cought fire)

Offline RAM

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2000, 04:40:00 PM »
Agree with the He177...but after Ju88. Ju88 was a good bombing platform until the end of the war. Was fast for a bomber, and we all know that is difficult to catch a fast high bomber...Also it was present the hole war.

But the He177 also is interesting  

BTW..I want Ju87G!!!! If you are going to model a IL2...then its fair to have their LW counterparts  


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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen"

 

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-05-2000).]

Offline Sundog

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2000, 10:06:00 PM »
If you want a buff that hasn't been modeled much, but also want historical scenarios, how about Dornier Do-17?

Allthough it would be nice to just have an He-111 so we can play battle of Britain.....wheres that channel map at? ;-)

Offline juzz

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2000, 01:30:00 AM »
The He177 would be welcomed, but the Ju88 with it's many versions (A,C,G,S) should have priority I think.

Offline HABICHT

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2000, 10:08:00 AM »
i know, we need a he111 or ju88 vor BoB scenario. but with the he111 or early ju88
we have planes, ONLY usefull for scenarios.
a early version of the he111 or ju88 in the
main?? no chance to survive.
btw for BoB, we still need a spit1,emil & hurri. the do17 idea is bad, this buff is a
"flying pencil". when the british get their
lancester, we LW freaks need the he177 (or arado234). b17,b26,lance are all middle-late war buffs (this versions here). why should the LW get a early war buff, only for bob?
no thx!
or give the allied the handley page hampden
instead of the lancester.  

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[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 03-06-2000).]

Offline Kieren

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2000, 10:19:00 AM »
Facts is facts, though. The He111 was used heavily throughout the war, and no planeset is complete without it. Same for the Ju88. To say they would not be competitive would be to ignore the success of the B26. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong (to a point) about the survivability of the B26. There is no reason to believe that the Ju88 or He111 could not be just as successful. Both are faster and have a higher ceiling than the B26.  

funked

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2000, 01:18:00 PM »
He 177 was a piece of junk.

Ju 88 is the best choice because it served for the whole war, and did every role you can think of.  Strategic bombing, dive bombing, tank killing, night fighter, day fighter, you name it.

Offline Duckwing6

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2000, 04:54:00 PM »
Kieren the He111 was for SURE not faser than the B26 ... and it wasn't armed well and had hardly any amor protection ..

Offline Kieren

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2000, 05:09:00 PM »
oops, got me there!

He111:

Speed- 258mph
Ceiling- 27,900ft
Payload- 5,501lbs


B26:

Speed- 281mph
Ceiling- 21,052ft
Payload- 5,207lbs

So, while the B26 is 23mph faster, the He111 can go almost 7,000ft higher and carry more bombs.

Defensive armament? No question the B26 is better with .50's but those .50's are easily spoofed. The He111, while it has smaller guns, has a better field of fire on the ones it has. I think I would trade 23mph for 7,000ft, wouldn't you?  

Nimm2

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »
YEAAAAAAAHHHHHH HE177

 

The He 177 served as a five/six-seat heavy bomber from 1942 to 1945. The Greif (Griffin) was the only long-range heavy bomber built by the Luftwaffe in World War II in significant numbers. It was, to the good fortune of the Allies, one of the most trouble-plagued and accident-prone aircraft in existence, and the German crews and ground staff did not like it either. The plane was desgined to meet a mistaken and impossible goal of 1938 that not only demanded long range with heavy bomb load, and a speed of 335mph but also required the big bomber must be able to dive-bomb. This and many other difficulties caused great delay and added to the weight. The designers wanted to use neat remotely controlled guns but this was a big problem and eventually it had to be discarded in favor of the ordinary turrets or hand-aimed guns. Worse yet, it was decided to use four engines and pack them in two coupled pairs to reduce drag, so that the He 177 looked like a twin-engined aircraft. Although great efforts were made by Daimler-Benz to make the 2,950hp DB 610A twinned units work properly, they created numerous problems and caught fire so often that -- like an aircraft of World War I -- the big Heinkel was dubbed "the Flaming Coffin." In total more than 1,000 of many versions were built. Armed with various combinations of 20mm cannon, 13mm heavy machine guns and rifle-caliber guns, the He 177 carried up to 13,225lb of bombs or missiles, and in some types even went into action at "nought feet" as tank-busters carrying huge 50 or 75mm caliber. Late in the war some new versions, like the He 274 built in France and He 277 in Austria, had four separate engines; but they were too late to have any significant influence in the course of the war.
 
 
<--->
<--->
 
Origin:Ernst Heinkel AG; also built by Arado Flugzeugwerke.
Type:He 177, six-seat heavy bomber and missile carrier.
Engines:two 2,950hp Daimler-Benz DB 610A-1/B-1, each comprising two inverted-vee-12 liquid-cooled engines geared to one propeller.
Armament A-5/R2) one 7.92mm MG 81J manually aimed in nose, one 20mm MG 151 manually aimed at front of ventral gondola, one or two 13mm MG 131 in forward dorsal turret, one MG 131 in rear dorsal turret, one MG 151 manually aimed in tail and two MG 81 or one MG 131 manually aimed at rear of gondola; maximum internal bomb load 13,200lb (6,000kg), seldom carried external load, two Hs 293 guided missiles, FX 1,400 guided bombs, mines or torpedoes (more if internal bay blanked off and racks added below it).
Speed:maximum speed (at 41,000lb, 18,615kg) 295mph (472km/h).
Climb:initial climb 853ft (260m)/min.
Ceiling:service ceiling 26,500ft (7,080m).
Range:range with FX or Hs 293 missiles (no bombs) about 3,107 miles (5,000km).
Weight:empty 37,038lb (16,800kg); loaded (A-5) 68,343lb (31,000kg).
Wingspan:103ft 13/4in (31.44m).
Length:72ft 2in (22m).
Height:21ft 0in (6.4m).
Crew:five/six.
History:first flight (He 177V-1) 19 November 1939; (pre-production He 177A-0) November 1941; service delivery (A-1) March 1942; February 1943; first flight (He 277V-1) December 1943; (He 274, alias AAS 01A) December 1945.
Users:Germany (Luftwaffe).

Offline Duckwing6

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2000, 03:05:00 AM »
Sorry Kieren but i have to disagree with you  again .. no way a He111 could reach it's ceiling with full 5.000 lb load, and the field of fire of it's weapons wasn't as good as on the B26

The front gunner had only  a samll cone of fire, the upper gunner only about 30° left right to the back (no forward firing) , same the lower gunner and the wasit gunners position could hardly fire further forward than 90° to the flight path.. this baby is dead meat without extensive protection (this is why she was used more as a transport than a Bomber after 1944)..

However the He111 is one of my favourites and i'd love to see it .. but i guess it's not going to see extensive use in the MA.

Offline -aper-

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2000, 03:48:00 AM »
I like the He-177 idea.

This plane'll be good in main arena and more over in "what if" scenarios. IMHO it'll be intresting to organize some "unhistorical" events.

As for He-111 it can also be used as a drunks carrier and V-1 launcher