Author Topic: why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..  (Read 1287 times)

eazydweeb

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2000, 08:18:00 AM »

nonoht,
as a side note:
My uncle was a engineer/gunner in a He111 (KG51), I talked to him yesterday and he said when they got their (forward firing)20mm cannons, they used them to "scare away" attacking fighters. The HE-shells had a self fusing distance of 700meters and they just "sprayed and prayed" some rounds into the flight path of the attacker. He said the sound of the shrapnell (?) fragments hitting the airframe caused most fighters to break up with their attack.

He also said, in the late years of WWII they used the 111 as ground attack plane. It had 4 forward firing 20mm cannons, they did low level attacks on trains in Russia. He keeps telling me the story of one guy, who had mounted 13 (!) forward firing MG's and cannons and used that thing for ship attacks.
I don't know if you can sink a destroyer with some MG's but the hail storm of more than 100 bullets a second hitting the deck shure must have scared the sh*t out of the poor sailors  
BTW this guy got shot down anyway

May be it'is the wrong thread  for this, but my uncle's job was also to  install the "ADLER Zielgerät" into FW190's in the last days of war. This was the German variant of a gyroscopic gunsight. It had a "electronic" computing device with no moving parts (besides the gyro) and was used for precise high deflection shooting against buffs (side attacks). If anyone is interrested, I have a rather bad photograph of that thing built into a trainer...

funked

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2000, 10:33:00 AM »
Cool info, thanks!

Offline Azrael

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2000, 01:53:00 PM »
It seems to me that you can't really get a MA-proof german late war bomber, due to the limitations that hampered german bomber production (a good overall source is Angriffhöhe 4000 - Ein Kriegstagebuch der deutschen Luftwaffe by Cajus Bekker, ISBN 3-8289-0306-1; english Title 'The Luftwaffe War Diaries : The German Air Force in World War II', available over http://www.combatsim.com/books/picks.htm).

Fact is that most german bomber designs were either short-range medium size bombers with rather poor defensive armament (He 111, Do 17, Ju 88), fragile conversions from civil products (Fw 200 - had very good armament, excellent range but a airframe that was prone to break under G-load) or the luckiless He 177 (which was originally a 4-engined, 2-Propeller design to increase speed but was plagued by requests for dive-bomb ability and design flaws - the fires where caused by oil from the engines dripping on the exhaust pipe).

The early death of General Wever in 1936 who proposed the development of 4-engined bombers, wrong decisions by the leadership and officials and the process of the war finally prevented the creation of a 'good' daylight bomber.

OTOH, one shouldn't forget that only the US with their intact homeland could produce the necessary number of bombers and escort fighters (another very weak point of the LW) to be successful in strategic bombing.

Az

funked

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2000, 01:57:00 PM »
Yeah everything I've read indicates the 177 was a lemon.  

And don't forget that a realistic bomb sight is coming soon.  No more 30k pickle barrel stuff.

I'd rather give up some bomb load and guns for speed and versatility.  Gimme a Ju 88 or He 111.

Offline Pongo

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2000, 02:38:00 PM »
It was a lemon but what does that matter in the MA. It is fast, over 300mph, carries enough bombs to hurt stuff, has quite good defensive armement.
Its weaknesses will be no more evident in the MA then the nikis almost identical weaknesses are.

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Offline Kieren

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2000, 02:59:00 PM »
Guys, guys, guys...

I'm not saying make the He111 first. I'm saying don't exclude it. I'm a patient man, and I think in time there will be a place.

Actually if I have to state which one I would rate on the "must have soonest" list, it would be the Ju88. As funked said, it was the German "jack-of-all-trades".

These decisions aren't all either/or, you know.  

funked

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2000, 04:36:00 PM »
The 177 had structural problems too.  At the loaded weight the maximum allowable normal acceleration was 2.3 g!

Offline juzz

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2000, 01:12:00 AM »
And you can pull those 2.3 g's with only a very small pressure the controls, even at high speeds. It would be funny seeing one try evasives and snapping in half when you attack it...  

Offline Vermillion

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2000, 09:40:00 AM »
Guys, check out the Fw191 Medium Bomber.

It never made it past the prototype stage, but it definitely "could have been a contender".

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Offline Pyro

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why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2000, 06:45:00 PM »
The He 177 would actually be a decent plane in the game, since we don't have to deal with a lot of the issues that make it a piece of junk.



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