Author Topic: Cap and Ball  (Read 1316 times)

Offline ariansworld

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Cap and Ball
« on: August 30, 2009, 10:37:11 PM »
Well, I am going to get a cap and ball revolver made by traditions.  I will be getting the 1851 navy replica.  Not sure if I should get it in .36 or .44, does anyone have any opinions on this?


Thanks,
Arian

Offline Golfer

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 10:38:16 PM »
A flight simulator forum is definiately the place I'd look for advice on this so good call there.  That said I'd choose the .44.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 10:50:02 PM »
A flight simulator forum is definiately the place I'd look for advice on this so good call there.  That said I'd choose the .44.

 :rofl
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Offline branch37

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 11:04:13 PM »
i have the .36 and its a sweet shooter.  :aok  a little time consuming to load though.

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 11:04:57 PM »
The Navy Colts (M1851 and M1861) were NEVER made in .44cal, it was strictly a .36cal. Colt's .44cal cap and ball revolvers were the Walker, M1848 Dragoon and M1860 Army.

If someone's selling you a "Navy" in .44 it's either ACTUALLY one of those three (and if it's a Walker you'd be able to tell the difference, because that thing is MASSIVE) or NOT a faithful reproduction, in which case you may want to look elsewhere.

My own Navy reproduction is by San Marco, it's based on an earlier model frame with the squared trigger guard (my dad's own San Marco Navy was the later, rounded guard). Some years ago Colt began manufacturing the Navy again, even picking up where the original serial numbers left off. Not sure if they're still in production, though.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 11:06:47 PM by Saxman »
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Offline RipChord929

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 11:51:14 PM »
"By GOD girl??? Thats a Colts DRAGOON!!!"  "Your just a Corn Nubbin!!! What are you doin with all this pistol!!"
 - Rooster Cogburn

"Well, ya gonna jerk them pistols, or whistle Dixie??"
- Josey Wales


Just gotta have the .44 man!!! A brace of 2 would be better!!!

Have fun, be safe!!

RC
"Well Cmdr Eddington, looks like we have ourselves a war..."
"Yeah, a gut bustin, mother lovin, NAVY war!!!"

Offline Saxman

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 12:16:34 AM »
Main issue is what you're looking for. The Dragoon and Army .44s have more power, but the Navies are lighter and as a result are a bit easier to handle. Speaking of power, it wasn't until the 44 Magnum that anyone made a (production, at least, not sure about any special one-offs) revolver to match the Walker (used a powder charge equal to some rifles). You pay for it in weight tho. That monster weighed in at 5lbs.

Incidentally, if you watch the Little Round Top scene in Gettysburg. Chamberlain uses the 1860 Army, while Tom has the '51 Navy. Great shot of Chamberlain swapping out cylinders during a lull (for those who complain about the reload time, that's the quickest way to do it).
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline RipChord929

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 12:48:20 AM »
Sax, I think those were Remingtons used by the Union Inf Officers.. Open top Colts couldn't swap Cyls without removing the barrel assy...
"Well Cmdr Eddington, looks like we have ourselves a war..."
"Yeah, a gut bustin, mother lovin, NAVY war!!!"

Offline Saxman

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 12:52:55 AM »
Nope, watch again. Tom used a M1851 and Chamberlain had an M1860.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline mtnman

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 01:03:05 AM »
The percussion revolvers are pretty fun, but I also find them messy and inaccurate.  Pyrodex or a different synthetic powder would help with the mess.

I had a .44 (1861 Army)for years, until a friend blew it up by forgetting to grease the chambers.  He pulled the trigger once, and five chambers fired.  One down the barrel, three down the sides of the barrel, and one right into the back of the loading lever.  I loved that gun, but having made the switch to single-shot pistols, I won't go back to a revolver.  My accuracy improved radically when I was taught to point-shoot it and ignore the sights.  I actually removed the front sight eventually.

Power-wise, both are inadequate for hunting anything other than small game.  If you're poking holes in paper, it doesn't matter what the caliber is.  Chances are you'll need to order balls through the mail, unless you have a black powder store near you.  Most stores don't carry the .451 or .454 balls for the .44, or the balls for the .36 either.  If you hunt with it, the .36 is great for squirrels, and won't destroy as much meat as the .44.  Most squirrels will be pretty safe anyway, hehe!

Both will be fun for plinking, but like Saxman says, for historical accuracy, I'd pick the .36 over the .44 if you choose the 1851 replica, since the .44 isn't an 1851 replica...

If you're looking for more power, accuracy, and a higher rate of fire, you'd be better off to go with a single-shot pistol.  I can load and fire a flintlock pistol 10 times in the time it takes to load and fire the revolver once, for six shots.  I have much more power, and much better accuracy.  I just sold my .45 flinter, and am in the process of building a .54 flinter for hunting deer.  It's also nice because it uses the same powder, patches, and balls as my rifle (as well as all of the cleaning tools).
MtnMan

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 01:11:51 AM »
mtnman,

There's stories of the .44 Army knocking down bears in the West...

And as I said, have spare cylinders loaded and it takes very little time to swap them out in the field. Officers during the Civil War had belt pouches specifically for storing extra cylinders (two, three, or even four spares). The Colts especially break down very quickly by removing the wedge on the left side of the frame if it fits properly (the wedge on my Colt is too tight to do that and I never got around to getting it fixed).
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline RipChord929

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 01:36:13 AM »
Yeah your right Sax, It clearly shows the open top Colt, with the barrel off, and Chamberlain fumbling with the barrel and key to reassemble it...

The Rem was actually a superior pistol, didn't blow up as much.. And the gun stayed in one piece when replacing cyls... Less loose parts to fumble with!!!  Little heavier, not as slender...

 :salute  RC
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 01:41:24 AM by RipChord929 »
"Well Cmdr Eddington, looks like we have ourselves a war..."
"Yeah, a gut bustin, mother lovin, NAVY war!!!"

Offline Ghosth

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 06:39:06 AM »
Personally I always preferred the .36 myself. I liked the "Navy" look with the polished brass.

Either way your going to spend time cleaning after every shoot. But IMO the brass was easier to keep clean and didn't rust.

.44's were heavier, burn more powder, but if all your shooting is paper do you really need the extra size?

Offline Treize69

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 06:47:14 AM »
Get a Remington replica (1858 Remington New Army)- much easier to change the cylinder on a Remington than on a Colt, and the topstrap design makes it much more rugged and accurate. I've had one (from Cabelas of all places) for several years and love it. I put about a hundred live rounds and several hundred blanks through it a year, and any problems I have are caused by either bad caps or damp powder, never a malfunction of the weapon itself.

And why would anyone shoot anything other than a .44? Its what those pistols were made for.

This isn't me, but gives you a good idea what you're getting into. recoil is surprisingly light given the calibre and size of the charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFGar_g4oCc
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Offline Treize69

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Re: Cap and Ball
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2009, 06:59:11 AM »
Sax, I think those were Remingtons used by the Union Inf Officers.. Open top Colts couldn't swap Cyls without removing the barrel assy...

Those are Colts in the movie, but many Officers (and Cavalrymen) did use Remingtons, especially men from upstate NY, where they were made. Cheaper than a Colt, more rugged and easier to reload. But Sam Colt was a better salesman than Eli Remington, at least at first. The Army eventually realized they were being jipped and started buying Remingtons instead of Colts, but it took a while.
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

Moartea bolșevicilor.