Author Topic: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?  (Read 48486 times)

Offline Die Hard

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #450 on: September 09, 2009, 06:24:07 AM »
No...

So then you also have no problem with my original argument?

I'm saying that smaller engines with newer technology can reliably produce as much power as larger engines with old technology.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #451 on: September 09, 2009, 06:26:00 AM »
Personally, give me an old car any day of the week.

If you buy American, I'm inclined to agree with you.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline Die Hard

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #452 on: September 09, 2009, 06:30:00 AM »
Actually, CAP1 gave the list...

Because I asked him to clarify his definition, and you know what? He didn't mention computer/electronic, or even valve timing at all. I did.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #453 on: September 09, 2009, 06:31:25 AM »
Well, this is the post I responded to:


It's the Cobra that's in question.

Well, we were miscommunicating.  The AC Cobra is absolutely a British car that had been modified.  I was referring to the Daytona Coupes being a different animal.

It is all rather odd today.  The Daytona Coupes were the cars that won all the races for Ford. When Ford pulled them so as not to compete against the GT-40, they were going to field, they could not give away the Daytona Coupes. Meanwhile the AC Cobra was garnering near mythical status and really did not do well in racing.

Today, the Daytona Coupe is the most sought after car out of the lot, and the AC Cobra is the most replicated car in the world.  Really quite interesting.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #454 on: September 09, 2009, 06:31:31 AM »
So then you also have no problem with my original argument?


No.   When you add Turbo's to an engine, you're adding a few more things to go wrong down the road.   I'm responding to your retort to CAP1's list.   Actually, the "argument" is null and void since the "pushrod powered" Vette does not need a turbo to attain 430hp (base model C6).    I've never come across a "trouble free Turbo" so far, because there is no such thing.  

I don't "imply", "misuse", etc other people posts.  
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #455 on: September 09, 2009, 06:32:26 AM »
Because I asked him to clarify his definition, and you know what? He didn't mention computer/electronic, or even valve timing at all. I did.

No, you implied.   But a few of us are already onto your game.   ;)
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #456 on: September 09, 2009, 07:40:11 AM »
And what makes you think the 4.6 Mustang engine is technologically modern? The Rolls-Royce Merlin was a DOHC engine.

THAT statement just made the point i've been trying to make to you for the last 3 pages.......ohc technology is not new.


allison was using ohc before rr i think(although i'm not sure)
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #457 on: September 09, 2009, 07:44:44 AM »
And revs... which you conveniently forgot to mention.

my camaro was dyno'd to 820 hp. at 6400 rpm.

sure, you can get that same power from a 2.0 turbotoy. at about 8k to 9k.

why in the world would i want to run an engine that high if i don't have to?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #458 on: September 09, 2009, 07:48:35 AM »
Obviously the ball stops somewhere, but the AC Cobra was still an AC product.

#Like many British specialist manufacturers, AC Cars had been using the smooth, refined Bristol straight-6 engine in its small-volume production, including its AC Ace 2-seater roadster. This had a hand built body with a steel tube frame, and aluminium body panels that were made using English wheeling machines. The engine was a pre-World War II design of BMW which by the 1960s was considered dated.

Bristol decided in 1961 to cease production of its engine and instead to use Chrysler 313cid (5.1 L) V8 engines. Although untrue, it is commonly believed that AC was left without a future source of power and that American ex-racing driver Carroll Shelby saved the company from bankruptcy.

AC started using the 2.6 litre Ford Zephyr engine in its cars. In September 1961, Shelby airmailed AC a letter asking them if they would build him a car modified to accept a V8 engine. AC agreed, provided a suitable engine could be found. He first went to Chevrolet to see if they would provide him with engines, but not wanting to add competition to the Corvette they said no.

Ford however, wanted a car that could compete with the Corvette and they happened to have a brand new thin-wall small-block engine which could be used in this endeavor. It was Ford's 260 in³ HiPo (4.2 L) engine - a new lightweight, thin-wall cast small-block V8 tuned for high performance. In January 1962 mechanics at AC Cars in Thames Ditton, Surrey fitted the prototype chassis CSX0001 with a 221ci Ford V8. After testing and modification, the engine and transmission were removed and the chassis was air-freighted to Shelby in Los Angeles on 2 February 1962.[1] His team fitted it with an engine and transmission in less than eight hours and began road-testing.

Production proved to be easy, since AC had already made most of the modifications needed for the small-block V8 when they installed the 2.6 litre Ford Zephyr engine, including the extensive rework of the AC Ace's front end. The most important modification was the fitting of a stronger rear differential to handle the increased engine power. A Salisbury 4HU unit with inboard disk brakes to reduce unsprung weight was chosen instead of the old ENV unit. It was the same unit used on the Jaguar E-Type. On the production version, the inboard brakes were moved outboard to reduce cost. The only modification of the front end of the first Cobra from that of the AC Ace 2.6 was the steering box, which had to be moved outward to clear the wider V8 motor.
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The first 75 Cobra Mark I (including the prototype) were fitted with the 260 engine (4.2 L). The remaining 51 Mark I model were fitted with a larger version of the Windsor Ford engine, the 289 in³ (4.7 L) V8."

so,..,,,,,,,,what you;re saying, is that i can take that triumph that's sitting outside in my lot, drop a 427 and a 4 speed in it, and it's going to be a race winner? it's such a wonderful design, that i don't have to change anything else, right?



 the cobra was a completley different car than the ace. we all know why ford built it. the t-bird couldn't compete with the corvettes, and ford wanted something to compete.

 to put 600 horses in that car though, everything had to be changed, otherwise that ford power would've either broken every single suspension part in the rear, or simply twisted the car in half.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #459 on: September 09, 2009, 07:49:09 AM »
THAT statement just made the point i've been trying to make to you for the last 3 pages.......ohc technology is not new.


allison was using ohc before rr i think(although i'm not sure)


Absolutely!!!   Bentley, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Maserati and Peugot were running DOHC's in the 19 Teen's.   But these were produced and used in Grand Prix cars of that time.   I'm sure some of that technology oozed into saloon's of that period in limited numbers.   Just as it happens today.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #460 on: September 09, 2009, 07:50:39 AM »
Yes, and since I'm the one who made the claim I get to define its meaning. Are you seriously arguing that an engine with new technology isn't better than an engine with old technology if all other factors are equal (displacement, forced induction etc.)?

i don't believe you originally said computer controled fuel injection. you only said fuel injection.

you(and others) need to pick one definition, and stick to it. can't keep changing em to try and win yaknow.  :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #461 on: September 09, 2009, 07:52:02 AM »
Well, this is the post I responded to:


It's the Cobra that's in question.

correct. and the body shape and original unmodified frame was.


the drivetrain, powertrain, and suspension(i think) was all ford built.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #462 on: September 09, 2009, 07:52:45 AM »
No, again, you're taking "Valve Timing" and throwing it back trying to say "Variable Valve Timing", or "Fuel Injection" and throwing it back as "Electronic Fuel Injection".  

Personally, give me an old car any day of the week.   Actually, CAP1 gave the list, you get to "define" zilch.

i wonder if these guys even know what variable valve timing does?  :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #463 on: September 09, 2009, 07:54:44 AM »
Because I asked him to clarify his definition, and you know what? He didn't mention computer/electronic, or even valve timing at all. I did.

define foe me "valve timing", and what affect it has on horsepower please?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?
« Reply #464 on: September 09, 2009, 07:58:18 AM »
No.   When you add Turbo's to an engine, you're adding a few more things to go wrong down the road.   I'm responding to your retort to CAP1's list.   Actually, the "argument" is null and void since the "pushrod powered" Vette does not need a turbo to attain 430hp (base model C6).    I've never come across a "trouble free Turbo" so far, because there is no such thing.  

I don't "imply", "misuse", etc other people posts.  

i just stopped by my old boss's shop the other night. he had his 2006 F650 tow truck up on stands. seems the turbo blew. the thing only has 120k on it too.
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