Author Topic: Ordnance changes in 1.05  (Read 2325 times)

Offline Westy

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2000, 10:01:00 AM »
IL2 was VERY heavy with all the armour don't forget.

-Westy

Offline SKurj

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2000, 10:07:00 AM »
Starting to sound like the IL2 would be a great addition to Aces based on Sorrow's post.

It would rarely be spotted at 20k+ due to a slooow time to climb, it would give the Nikis and spitits fits, and it would be a great Attack plane.
Its a bomber/fighter with a chance of survival.

The typical Late war monster would be able to BnZ the thing with impunity IMO.  The stall fighters would pay +)

The majority of pilots in the MA end up low and slow on the deck, which is not as it was in reality.  The IL2 would like serve to discourage some of this +)

My thots..

AKSKurj

TheWobble

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2000, 10:20:00 AM »
What about the fact that the bombs fall perfectly straight down and dont disperse ANY as they fall they land the same from 35k.
 

Offline Dowding

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2000, 10:41:00 AM »
I'm not so sure it would be a great dog-fighter, for the reasons people have already given.

 
Quote
Clean Il-2's were capable of loops and acrobatics and could both turn and maintain E well at low speeds.

But relative to what? I find it hard to believe that with all that armour it could go 1v1 with an La5/7 - if what you say is true (and I don't doubt it is) then the russians must have come up with a wonder plane, and as such should have used for ALL roles (jabo and fighter). I just find it hard to believe that with the amount of armour needed to be so impervious to cannon fire, they could still have a manoeverable dogfighter capable of beating the La-5. But what do I know.  

MrWobble - are you talking about level bombers or dive-bombers (the Il-2 would be a dive bomber)? Because I don't know anyone who can take out a tank from 35k with a dive bomber, especially if said tank is moving (in which case a level bomber would be lucky to hit it).
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Westy

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2000, 10:46:00 AM »
 Wobble? You're from AW aren't you? Bombs in real life, and here, don't fall perfectly straight down. In real life also, they do not "disperse" as you might picture. Read this topic from a few weeks ago for some clarification and insight:
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006286.html

 -Westy



[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-18-2000).]

funked

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2000, 11:35:00 AM »
Westy it weighed about 13,500 lb (late war version, heaviest version) and had 414 ft^2 wing area.  Compare this to a Fw 190A-8 with 9,500 lb and 198 ft^2.  It's not even close.

Offline juzz

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2000, 11:57:00 AM »
How about a 2,000lb torpedo on the B-26B? Hmmm?

PS: Westy, what funked said. Imagine a P-47(Il-2 was a bit bigger actually) with 38% more wing.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 11-18-2000).]

Sorrow[S=A]

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2000, 12:56:00 PM »

Define fighter. Il-2 was a ground fighter from the get-go. The VVS had bombers- they did not include the Il-2 in the list nor did they operate it beside them. Il-2 was a fighter, expected to defend itself against other fighters while attacking armor and ground targets.
The bombs were inside for 2 reasons. 1st drag was radically reduced allowing faster speeds and second ...  would you like to get shot at with 400 kg's of bombs laying unprotected under your ass? Having your ordinance inside does not inherently make you a bomber because others were silly enough to hang them outside.
"Fly like a pig"
No. Not true AT ALL.
Read what I said, the plane was skipping and hopping like a rabbit once it dumped the ordinance. It was light on controls and easy to fly. And as it got lower it had a low stall as well.
Note: I said Lagg and yak 1 not La7 or La5. It was NOT an E fighter, it was too heavy and not powerfull enough. But if anything short of a spit or zero starting turning and stall fighting it they would be in trouble fast. The Il would be able to IGNORE snap shots from anything smaller than 30mm and it's own would be lethal as all heck.
gracefull Dogfighter?
no.
Lethal SOB in any kind of good shot and acceptable pilot? oh yeah.
PS: Juzz
A side to side looks to me like there is NO big difference between the p-47 and Il-2 like you suggest:
P-47 Il-2

Wing:
40    47.9 feet
Engine:
2000  1700 (m3)
length:
30    38   feet
Height:
14    13.5   Feet
Weight (empty):
9,900 9,975  lb
(fully loaded)
14,000 14,021  lb
Wing area:
300    414.4  sqft

Sources: http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/il-2.html  http://www.french-property.com/ref/convert.htm#length  http://www.p47advocates.com/thep47.html

The only real weak part is the lack of a supercharger and more HP on the Il-2.
But the armor, higher wing area and massive cannons kind of make up for that in a low fight.

TheWobble

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2000, 01:29:00 PM »
Westy,

I was referring to the fact that if you drop 12bombs from 35k at say delay .2 and a salvo of 12 they will land EXACTLY the same as if dropped from 6k, that is not right. from 35k a fast salvo of bombs would wander apart and land all over field .  Not in a perfectly staright line, evenly spaced.  that is my big beef, thats why sme folks hate bombers, ya can snipe gun emplacements from 35k and you CANNOT carpet bomb cause they will not drift apart ANY and will jsut make a neat little line.  

Offline Westy

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2000, 01:59:00 PM »
 I agree Wobble, that's why there is this topic about four down from thsione started by Jekyll
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001055.html

 The mechanics of the bombs is not broken so much as the skill required to be a bombardier is next to nill. The lack of any complexity to being a bombardier combined with the method that HTC has it setup: hit F6, wiggle the stick till the crosshairs are on the fully magnified target and then hit B... is too easy.
 Easy as cake, piece of pie!

  -Westy
 
-Westy

TheWobble

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2000, 02:07:00 PM »
Westy

thats true. but weather the bomb sight is perfect or not dropping 12bombs from 25k+ you couldent really aim at a hangar or whatever, they should just land randomly in and about the perimiter of the base, wish i could paste a diagram of what i am talking about cause i cant really explain it that well.  As a bomber pilot i would like it better just having to dump a wad of bombs and know that they will land kinda spread out over the target area, cause if you do that now they will make a cute little line across bese doing not much damage, so the only alternitive for you is to aim every bomb. and that is unrealistic and it well  ...SUCKS  

Offline SKurj

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2000, 04:49:00 PM »
OK i would accept one small change fer buffs..
Reduce the max zoom level on the bomb sight...

Then the buff pilot would be encouraged to drop "extra" eggs to ensure a hit (or larger eggs) from high alt, or reduce his alt(and die sooner)

another Thot...

AKSKurj

Offline juzz

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2000, 10:49:00 PM »
There is no bombsight zoom, that was removed several versions ago. The zoom bombers use now is the normal viewing system FOV zoom.

TheWobble

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2000, 11:07:00 PM »
The zoom is not really a prob, neither is the acuracy of the bomb sight, the problem is that the bombs fall perfetly in line and accurate, they dont drift apart or anything!
it is as though HTC put the laws of phisics(sp) on hold when desiging the dropping of bombs and what REALLY annoys me is that they are picking through all these VERY specific deatails and ignoring a VERY large and problematic issues with the basic principal of a falling object!  I mean it is SOOO obviously inaccurate and wrong but they would rather make sure that the p-51 has a climb rate that matches historical charts within an inch or so....Then only thingI can say is   KAFKA!

Offline SKurj

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Ordnance changes in 1.05
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2000, 11:08:00 PM »
Well ok whatever juzz, reduce the level of zoom in the bombsight is still IMO the best way to add a little human error.

SKurj