109 k-4

[Getback]

Did a little comparison:

All comparisons were done at 12k. (Way too much time for all alts).

Plane                        Indicated                       Ground                 Wep Indicated              Wep Ground

F4U-1A                     311                                374                      332                           399
109-K4                     322                                388                      347                            418
F4U-F4                     321                                386                      339                            407
P51D                        338                                407                      344                            414
Tempest                   323                                388                      331                            398

Results may vary  

The f4u-1a and the p51 were at 3/4 tanks, all others had full tanks and no ord or drop tanks.

[Scotch]

Sucker the k4 into turning with you. If he doesn't hit on a snapshot in the first couple of "threads" on the rolling scissor he's in a tough position. As long as your aim is decent enough to hit him from 400 yds when he either goes up or tries to extend out, the hog super flaps, gun platform, and stall characteristics keep the k4 on a short leash.

F4u's and ki84's are the most difficult planes to fight against in a k4. I could say "it's the plane not the pilot" about most hogs in this match up too. But ultimately it comes down to how the carpenter uses his tools.

[Getback]

Sucker the k4 into turning with you. If he doesn't hit on a snapshot in the first couple of "threads" on the rolling scissor he's in a tough position. As long as your aim is decent enough to hit him from 400 yds when he either goes up or tries to extend out, the hog super flaps, gun platform, and stall characteristics keep the k4 on a short leash.

F4u's and ki84's are the most difficult planes to fight against in a k4. I could say "it's the plane not the pilot" about most hogs in this match up too. But ultimately it comes down to how the carpenter uses his tools.

Thanks Scotch!

[Die Hard]

Scotch, if the 109 driver is any good at all he'll just spiral-climb above the F4U. Mastering the spiral-climb is probably the most important thing to learn when flying late mark 109s. The only F4U that can best a well flown K4 is the -4.

[Scotch]

As I stated, the hog has to lure the k4 into flying it's game instead of flying the k4's.
You can't out spiral climb 50cal rounds from a hog hovering on his flaps 400yds or closer even if you are outpacing the hog in the vert.

I do have a little stick time in the k4...
Of course I'm talking about knife fights in a head to head environment and not timid school girl slapping matches.

[moot]

Getback do you have film of the K4 accelerating climb?

[Getback]

As I stated, the hog has to lure the k4 into flying it's game instead of flying the k4's.
You can't out spiral climb 50cal rounds from a hog hovering on his flaps 400yds or closer even if you are outpacing the hog in the vert.

I do have a little stick time in the k4...
Of course I'm talking about knife fights in a head to head environment and not timid school girl slapping matches.

Just curious Scotch, do you lighten your nose a tad in the f4 vs k4?

[Getback]

Getback do you have film of the K4 accelerating climb?

Yes, however, I don't want the folks names out there. It wouldn't be right. Don't misunderstand me after the short and small increase his speed dropped.

Another thing I noticed was how light the 109 k4 is. It's like 4,000 lbs. less than the f4U's. Armor I figure is the difference.

[Motherland]

Yes, however, I don't want the folks names out there. It wouldn't be right. Don't misunderstand me after the short and small increase his speed dropped.

Another thing I noticed was how light the 109 k4 is. It's like 4,000 lbs. less than the f4U's. Armor I figure is the difference.

Going off of memory it's around twice that weight.


Nevermind the period confused me sorry


Also I don't think he wants the film to start a witch hunt...

[moot]

Yeah I'm just curious.  Thanks anyway

[Die Hard]

As I stated, the hog has to lure the k4 into flying it's game instead of flying the k4's.

Only possible against novice 109 drivers, and not really a good point when arguing aircraft capabilities. Any plane can and will win over any other plane if the opposition is dumb enough to fight on your terms.

You can't out spiral climb 50cal rounds from a hog hovering on his flaps 400yds or closer even if you are outpacing the hog in the vert.

The F4U will be hard pressed to get guns on a spiral-climbing K-4, no matter how well it floats. A 109K-4 with a good driver will completely dominate the fight and can reset or leave at will. The F4U's only chance of winning is if the K-4 driver makes a mistake, and fighting on the F4U's terms would be a big one.

[moot]

The F4U will be hard pressed to get guns on a spiral-climbing K-4

Nope.. The K4 will dominate as you say only if you're willing to risk moments thru the hog's 50cal reach. Scotch is spot on, on that.  Ceteris paribus.

[Die Hard]

If HO are out as per common dueling etiquette I really don't see how a Hog-1 can prevail against a well flown K-4. The .50's have a long reach and lucky shots are of course possible, but then again every time the 109 makes a pass the Hog risks 30mm instant death; lucky shots by definition are statistically irrelevant.

[moot]

The premise is equal pilots.. In that one, a K4 pilot that knows how to properly spiral climb will also know how to properly nose up for a solution.  The visibility and MK108 gunnery from the K4 is difficult enough that an equal pilot would have equal chances of dodging the K4 on the way down from a failed solution on the spiraling K4.

The situation where the F4 really is hard pressed is on the deck, where there's no room to accelerate back to effective evasive speed.

[Die Hard]

That is true, and a 109K-4 needs a good pilot to fly it properly. The Hog is much more forgiving and easier to fight if you're a novice. However, every time the Hog has to dodge it expends energy it cannot easily replace, while the 109 can actually build energy during B&Z passes. The longer the fight lasts the greater the 109's advantage... Up to a point of course. The point is that the Hog will be totally defensive and can only hope the 109 driver gives him a brief opportunity for a lucky shot.