D30 vs. D25 vs. D11?

[Lephturn]

Can some of you more knowledgeable history buffs give me the run down between these three versions of my favourite bird?

I've a good idea of the D30 vs. D25 bit, but what about the D11?  Did it have the paddle bladed prop?  I think it's lighter, and I know it's a Razorback, but what else is there?  Is there a difference in power from the D11 to the D25?

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-16-2001).]

[flakbait]

Here's what Joe Baugher has on the D11. It would be nice to know if our P-47 D11 is a D-11 RE or D-11 RA. Since the D-11 RE only had a single belly point, but the RA could take field-mod wing racks.

Boost was auto-controlled from this variant on, being engaged when you shoved the throttle through the last half-inch of travel.

Water injected engines installed at the factory were given the designation of R-2800-63.

Underwing pylons weren't available until the D-15 (D-11 RA). A single belly point for either a 500 pound bomb or drop tank was available on the D-11. Field-mod wing pylons were around, but they were a pain and a half to install. Plus they chopped about 45mph off the top speed. Better pylons were introduced later (no date given) that only cut the speed by 15mph.


I don't know what the difference is with their specs because all he gives are the specs of the P-47D-25RE.
 http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_4.html

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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[Buzzbait]

S!

All the D model Jugs were upgraded to use water injection and Hamilton Standard paddle blade props during December 1943 - January 1944.  Prior to December these aircraft often lacked either the water injection or props.

Depending on what the designers/developers decides, the result could be either way.  Logically, both should be offered.  If only one is available, then it should be WITH the prop and water injection.  These were the aircraft which (along with the P-51b and P-38J) won the Battle of Germany and defeated the Luftwaffe.

                 Cheers Buzzbait

[Sancho]

 

Originally posted by flakbait:
It would be nice to know if our P-47 D11 is a D-11 RE or D-11 RA. Since the D-11 RE only had a single belly point, but the RA could take field-mod wing racks.

In Warren Bodie's P-47 book, there is no mention of a P-47D-11-RA; he lists all USAAC contracts for each production block on page 377 and a -11-RA is not on there.  Bodie mentions that some wing strengthening modifications were done with the -6 and -10.  Hence, our future dash eleven could accomadate wing pylons as a field retrofit job, but I think it would be better to leave wing pylons off.

As far as the paddle blade, it was not factory equipment until the -22, however 56th FG records (recorded in David McLaren's Beware the Thunderbolt) state that a number of aircraft fitted with Curtiss "long-wide" or A.O. Smith "short-wide" paddle blade props flew in combat for the first time on 4 January 1944.  Gabby's -11 would have almost certainly been so equipped.  I also asked 9th Air Force vet Col. Earl Kiergass who confirmed that they had received paddleblades at the start of '44 in the 368th FG.

The -11 had 305 gallons internal fuel capacity, while the -25 could carry 370 gallons internally.  The -11 had a R-2800-63 rated at 2000hp at military power, and 2300hp with water injection.  The -25 had a R-2800-59.  THe major difference here per Bodie was the -59 had an improved G.E. ignition system (presumably offering improved reliability/ease of maintenance??) but there was no additional HP.  I'm still unclear on the engine differences between the -25 and -30, but the other major differences there are the dorsal fillet which provided better stability through turns and dive flaps.

"Over 1000 enemy aircraft destroyed."

[flakbait]

The P-47 was produced at Evansville and Farmingdale. Evansville P-47's had the D-xx-RA designation, while Farmingdale P-47's got D-xx-RE. Curtis-built P-47's were known as G-xx-CU. The P-47D5-RE (D-11RA) had a single belly point attachment. So on the Dash 5 Farmingdale production block is when they first made these available. Evansville either used different block codes, or introduced the belly rack at a later date. I'm guessing they were introduced at a later date since the D-11RE and RA were the first factory-fitted with wing racks. Earlier P-47 C and D models could take these racks, but they chopped the speed down by 45mph. A later version of the wing rack cut that loss down to 15mph. They also required a load of work to be installed properly.

A little further down Baugher makes another note. From the D6-RE to the D11-RE, and the G10-CU to G15-CU, had only belly shackles. Either he's trying to confuse the living crap outa me, or he stuck the text in the wrong spot. As for prop types, he names two. D22-RE and D23-RA blocks had either a Hamilton Standard Hydromatic 24E50-65, or a Curtis Electric C542S. Both were 13 feet in diameter and paddle-bladed. This added 400 feet/min to the climb rate, but left a measily 6 inches of clearance between the prop and the ground during takeoffs and landings. The D22-RE and D23-RA also had a canopy jettison device, bullet-proof windshield, and increased fuel capacity.

All of the models up to the D22-RE and D23-RA, and all the Curtis-built models, used the sliding canopy from the P-47B. Some were fitted with a Malcom Hood, but it was FAR from common. The D-25RE and D-26RA were the first to get the new canopy. The D20-RE also had a max internal fuel capacity of 370 gallons. This was upped from the stock 305 gallons, but where they stuck this increased load is beyond me.


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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[Regurge]

I'm guessing the p47s with the pillar in the middle of the windshield was before the bulletproof ones were installed. From the screenshots it looks like our d-11 will have the pillar so im wondering how it will effect visibilty. Anyone have any info on what effect it had in RL? Was the gunsight directly behind it or offset?

[juzz]

I ask - what sort of IDIOT would design a cockpit with a pillar right in the middle of the forward view?!  

[Macchi]

The gunsight was offset because of the pillar. The was an armor glas plate independing of the pillar like you can see here:
 


Lem aka Macchi

[Lephturn]

Well, the pillar in the middle would certainly allow for nice smooth airflow compared to a flat angled plate.  I'm betting this paid off aerodynamically.

It seems to be clear that the D11's had water injection and the same power as the D25.  AFAIK the D30 runs slightly more boost at MIL, but WEP works out the same.  What I'm not sure about is whether or not we get the paddle blade prop.  I HOPE we do, since a Jug without one is going to be at even more of a disadvantage to most planes in the arena.  Actually that's not that big of a concern to me honestly, the problem is that it will take even longer to climb to altitude in the thing.

Man, I would pay perkies for an overboosted "Lucky" with all the toys.  

As far as shackles and wing pylons, I hope we get one with NO wing pylons.  Give me that slippery wing baby with no crap on it.  Ground pound with a late model Jug.  I'm hoping the D-11 is going to be the lightest, cleanest, best turning Jug of the bunch.  I want it to be the one that surprises folks who think a Jug can't nail them, only to have me surprise 'em in the D11 and carve their wing off.  

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Widewing]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
I ask - what sort of IDIOT would design a cockpit with a pillar right in the middle of the forward view?!  

Generally speaking, a pilot seldoms looks straight ahead anyway. However, you should note that this layout was incorporated on the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart. So, it is very probable that this was not considered a major issue.

My regards,

Widewing

[DmdStuB]

I think that they both didn't have guns, only missles.  The pilot didn't have to worry about a gunsight as his face was in a radar scope.

StuB

 

Originally posted by Widewing:
Generally speaking, a pilot seldoms looks straight ahead anyway. However, you should note that this layout was incorporated on the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart. So, it is very probable that this was not considered a major issue.

My regards,

Widewing

[SFRT - Frenchy]

 

Originally posted by Widewing:
Generally speaking, a pilot seldoms looks straight ahead anyway. However, you should note that this layout was incorporated on the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart. So, it is very probable that this was not considered a major issue.

My regards,

Widewing

But were the Delta's intended for turnfighting?  

[SFRT - Frenchy]

   

Machi, it's a very nice reproduction of Zemke's "my Komrad" P47, WTG!  

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
But were the Delta's intended for turnfighting?  

No, and neither was the P-47.

[Widewing]

 

Originally posted by DmdStuB:
I think that they both didn't have guns, only missles.  The pilot didn't have to worry about a gunsight as his face was in a radar scope.

StuB

 

Well, the prototype that led to the YF-102, the XF-92, was designed to carry four 20mm cannon. In the 1970s, some of the F-106A aircraft still in service were retro-fitted with an M-61 20mm cannon. As to P-47 gunsights: They were offset to avoid the vertical windscreen brace.

My regards,

Widewing