Ju-88 A-4 with 20mm cannon and 1000kg eggs

[Fishu]

Ahh.. after two months of waiting, I finally received a notice from the library that the book is avail.

The book is The Finnish Air Force History, part two: Dornier Do17Z / Junkers Ju88 A-4 (3rd printing)

There I found bit more than just one or two 88's with fixed 20mm "MG FF/M" cannon in the nose.
It was possible to have fixed or movable cannon.

Also I found pictures of 1000kg bombs loaded on the Ju88 (instead of 4 bombs in the wings, this option will limit it to 2 bombs in the wings)

The cannon has accounts of being used to strafe pillboxes and one account tells of a burst shot at Airacobra.

Heres the pictures:
   
   
   
   
   

Cannon was found from at least 4 different bombers.. I did only have a quick look.
(FAF had total of 24 Ju-88's during WW2)

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 01-24-2001).]

[funked]

WTG!!!!!!!!!!

Note that the cannon is obscuring the bombsight like I told you.  

Nice Pics!!!!

[Jochen]

Ju 88 is early war uberbomber! Not many of its competitors carried 3000 kg (over 6000 lbs) of bombs at speed exceeding 250 mph.

While heavier forward gun would be nice I would rather have heavier defensive armament to rear quarter.

Maybe we can someday have even Ju 188! One can always hope...

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by funked:
WTG!!!!!!!!!!

Note that the cannon is obscuring the bombsight like I told you.    

Nice Pics!!!!

According to that what I read from the book, bombsight was operational even if aircraft was fitted with the cannon.

It would be also very futile if FAF would have over 1/4 of its Ju-88 without level bombing ability.
I were just taking more careful look at the pictures and which planes those are, at least 6 out of 24 has the cannon
I dont know which planes are shown in all pictures, so I can't say if any of those is not yet listed in any other pictures.
about half of the pictures has that cannon sticking out. (where it is possible to see nose part enough)

All of these bombers were equipped with dive bomb sight 'Stuvi' and optical level bombing device BZA and BZG 2, as well Finnish made mechanical night bombing sight TM 42.
In year 1944 there were semi-automatic Lotfe 7 D level bombing sights, but those werent installed in the planes.

so umm.. I think you're wrong on this one funked  

I read that 20mm was used to strafe pillboxes, warehouses, troop camps..

Looks like they havent painted off those german markings too hard, I can see dim crosses aside FAF insignia  

Ahh.. while reading this book as well, I found picture from inside the cockpit (ill scan this picture sometime when i got scanner hooked up again.. I usually have it off the computer because cable is too short and comes in the way)

20mm cannon is placed to bit right side of the plane as you can see in the picture, but in this interior picture, bombsight is on the left side and theres some big device on the right side over the spot where cannon would be 'obscuring'

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 01-24-2001).]

[Fishu]

Okey.. I couldn't wait, so I hooked up the scanner..

Heres my proof to you funked:

 

[funked]

I can't tell what that pic shows.  It looks different from the planes in the other pics anyways.  

The pics in your first post show the reciever of the gun starting right in front of and above the glass for the bombsight.  Unless the receiver is only about 6 inches long, it's going to be right where the bombsight would be.  Go look around the inside of the plane in AH to see what I'm talking about.

Maybe the last picture is easier to see for you.  Can you mark it up to show me where you think the gun and the bombsight are in the picture?


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-24-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Nice Fishu  

Now THAT is how you do it and prove your point!  Not cries of turbolaser and what not.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Nice Fishu  

Now THAT is how you do it and prove your point!  Not cries of turbolaser and what not.

Bah.. people should already take it as I don't talk just BS
..like they thought of this
I don't bother to wait for #/¤%/#¤/% book every time for 2 months from the library  
(hrrh.. they must be having like couple books of each FAF history part)
and of course I don't mind to order books from amazon etc. where those are bit more common...  (or who wants to pay?)


Funked,

I'd believe that gun barrel would be bit left from that whatever stick there is in right frame, starting bit left from ammobelt.
While bombsight is middle / left side
So I don't see how that gun would be obscuring it
Of course I don't have such knowledge as writer of this book or people in the field, but theres no mentioning of the gun obscuring bombsight, just mentions of every bomber having bombsights and working.
So I could take that as 'it works'.

[funked]

Fishu I still can't see it.

Look at the AH model and find the level bombing sight.  That's where the level bombing sight was in Ju 88A-4.  If the gun is located where your external pics show it, looking through the sight would show you a nice picture of the back of the gun.

I'm guessing the Finns moved the bombsight from the standard location.

Wish I could tell what that last pic shows.  

Thanks for your work.  <S>!!!!

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Fishu I still can't see it.

Look at the AH model and find the level bombing sight.  That's where the level bombing sight was in Ju 88A-4.  If the gun is located where your external pics show it, looking through the sight would show you a nice picture of the back of the gun.

I'm guessing the Finns moved the bombsight from the standard location.

Wish I could tell what that last pic shows.    

Thanks for your work.  <S>!!!!

Last picture is interior of the Ju88
You can see ammobelt of the fixed nose gun in right upper corner and nose plexi in middle.
I dont know how moving the bombsight would be possible though  
They used german bombsights with the exception of night bombsight

[funked]

Maybe the gun is shorter than I think.

[Jochen]

Maybe the MG/FF was moved upwards ie. barrel aimed down during bombind run? That way bombardies could perhaps access bombsight below cannon.

------------------
jochen Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[Jimdandy]

If your looking for a Ju88 to strafe targets with why not the Ju88P-3. It was supposed to be a fairly good tank buster. It mounted two 37mm BK Flak 18 cannon in a fairing under the front fuselage. It had a solid nose. No bomb sight. I think the 37mm is the same one as the Osti. It would be fun to open up on a base with 2 Osti's. It would be very easy for HT to make it since they have the gun and the plane already. If your looking for something better air to air that you can bomb with your plane would be better.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Jimdandy:
If your looking for a Ju88 to strafe targets with why not the Ju88P-3. It was supposed to be a fairly good tank buster. It mounted two 37mm BK Flak 18 cannon in a fairing under the front fuselage. It had a solid nose. No bomb sight. I think the 37mm is the same one as the Osti. It would be fun to open up on a base with 2 Osti's. It would be very easy for HT to make it since they have the gun and the plane already. If your looking for something better air to air that you can bomb with your plane would be better.

Issue is that whether we should already have an option for 20mm cannon and 1000kg bomb in A-4, not some whole new versatile.
Adding 20mm gun wouldnt need anything, or just a barrel sticked in the nose, like gondola graphics are done in 109.

[Pongo]

Thanks for the excellent pictures Fishu.