Ju-88 A-4 with 20mm cannon and 1000kg eggs

[Hangtime]

I'm also having trouble interpeting the last shot.. but as far as I know; that JU88-A4 was a functional level bomber; equipped with the nose cannon or not. Never seen any mention of the level bombing capability hindered by the nose cannons presence.

[funked]

Hangtime, come to the USAF Museum this weekend and I'll show you what the problem is.  

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Issue is that whether we should already have an option for 20mm cannon and 1000kg bomb in A-4, not some whole new versatile.
Adding 20mm gun wouldnt need anything, or just a barrel sticked in the nose, like gondola graphics are done in 109.

Ok, sorry. I would have to ask then which was the most common version. The one we have now or the one with the 20mm. If it was a weapons package option that would be nice to be able to pick it in the hanger.

[Jigster]

 

Here's another picture of the Ju88 carrying a 1000kg bomb on the wing racks. Also note that it's carrying an asymmetrical load, the other is a 500kg bomb.

(Sorry about the integrity of the scan but the book it came from is gigantic and it's very hard to get it placed on the scanner  
)

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33rd FW www.33rd.org

[Fishu]

More pictures here

[brady]

 Well, done Fishu, I love the JU 88,and any variant would be cool by be for them to add

Brady


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[Fishu]

Göring had donated 15 Do 17 Z (variations 1,2 and 3) bombers for Finland, which of 1 had cannon mounted in the bottom nose (DN-52).
DN-52 was Do 17 Z-3

I scanned some photos of it to here , which of 3-7 pictures are of DN-52, where in few that cannon barrel is visible under the machinegun barrel.

It has interesting history as well.

DN-52
Z-3 model. Build number 2608. German signs DM+DV. Flown in Luftwaffe for 302 hours 30 minutes.
Arrived to Finland in January 6th 1942.
Were given to 1.Lentue/LeLv 42 in 18.2.1942.
At 30.9.1942 it got hit by a bomb of another Dornier in the nose and spotter Ltn. K.Rundqvist bailed out. Plane was again in duty after a month.

Must been a shock for the spotter  

Those pictures of DN-52 being bellied in the snow is from Mensuvaara at 22.3.1944.

[Fishu]

*PUNT*

[hazed-]

Just to point out Funked you say maybe the 20mm is shorter than you thought but you should understand that the 20mm cannon is more in the lower ventral gun prominance.
If you look carefully you can see it would actually go right under the floor to the main pilot/bombers position.the only crew mwmber likely to suffer due to increased space needed by the 20mm is the rear ventral gunner.
look at the second and third picture of cannon and you will see what looks like an engine oil dipstick attached to its barrel...now locate it in the interior shot and you can plainly see the cannons barrel is well below the floor panels(part that looks like corregated hose right on top of them in picture).I dont think there was a flexible mounted 20mm at all but i have seen shots of ju88s with a flexible mounted front 7.9mm mg on a documentary.it was in a sort of plexiglass disc that was mounted in the front glass section.
The way i see it the 20mm was common and should be put in AH after all 20mm with what? 120 rds? would it make the ju88 suddenly deadly? i think not.

I vote 20mm IN  

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Hazed
3./JG2

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Yep, I vote for the 20mm cannon as well as the 1000kg bombs.  I've read reports of russian tanks flying "to tree top height" by the force of the bomb blast.  

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[Dinger]

hazed, about a month ago, Funked, mietla and I were checking out the 88 at the USAF museum.  The problem isn't whether there'd be room for the bombardier.  The problem is that running a 20mm cannon would block the gunsight.  fishu's interior picture might be conclusive, but I cannot make out either gun or bombsight down there.

Actually, come to think of it, it would explain a lot of things.
You couldn't fit a 151/20 in there.  The barrel is just too long.  Right behind where you see the barrel is the bombisght.  So a rule for mounting a gun up there is that it cannot extend back into the body for more than a few cm.  
But the FF has a really short barrel and would probably be the biggest thing you could fit on there.  I think it possible that it was stuck on there with the bombsight working.
In fact, compare Fishu's ju88-2 picture with mietla's shot of the MG/FF here:   .
I have a figure of 53 inches (134 cm) for the MG/FF (not barrel, the whole darn thing). If ju88-2 shows all but the very back part of the gun projecting from the plane.  They could have crammed it in there.
OTOH, Ju88-2 seems to show that the bombsight was painted over, implying funked's account.


[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 04-02-2001).]

[funked]

Having looked up close at that part of a Ju 88A and at an MG FF, the body of the gun is going to extend far enough aft to entirely block the bombsight glass (the small glass panel in the front of the gondola).

The only way they could have retained use of the bombsight is if it was moved or if the gun was moved.  But for the standard bombsight position, the gun is too long, and would block line of sight through the gunsight glass.

And remember that the AH bombsight view actually moves your view point to the actual bombsight location.  And AH guns seem to be modeled pretty accurately in shape and size.  So if HTC add an MG FF in that spot in the Ju 88, and you look through your bombsight, you are going to see... nothing but the top of the MG FF.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-02-2001).]

[Staga]

hmm...
Some bombers can shoot through their fuselage so I can't see any reason why bombardier couldn't see through the cannon ?  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Dinger:

OTOH, Ju88-2 seems to show that the bombsight was painted over, implying funked's account.

Look at the other screens aside it, its the light reflection only.
Light reflection from below is hard because its on snowy platform  

It would be fairly insane for finns to have Ju88's with blocked gunsight when takes into count how many Ju's they had with a cannon compared to total number of ju88's which wasnt much.
I remember that I found pictures of at least 6 surely different Ju-88's (and bunch of unidentified pictures with a cannon) with MG-FF/M mounted in the nose.
There were total of 24 planes, this represents at least quorter of bombers having the cannon.
Also there wasn't any mention in the book about it obstructing anything, rather than that there were stories of them making level bomb runs.

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 04-02-2001).]

[Salcor]

punt

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Salcor

The meek shall truly inherit the Earth because that is where they will all be buried