Eric Hartmann was a HO'er...

[Chalenge]

The second we only get one life and we're done playing AH afterwards forever, then you can use real life HO'ing as your justification.

From a logical approach this doesnt make sense. If 'one life' were the reality then why throw away your life in a head on pass? It seems the opposite would be true.

[edge12674]

It seems that the "accepted" definition of a HO is changing in the arena.  I took a two year break from AH after 13 yrs of playing (AW to CK to WB to AH).  At that time, an HO was considered firing on the initial merge and requiring that at least one of the involved parties take evasive action to avoid a collision, provided no one was destroyed.

I recently returned to AH and had an encounter with a Hurri while flying my Zeke.  On the initial merge the Hurri began firing.  I held my fire and ducked underneath.  We then proceeded with a turn fight.  After several turns I got the angle to get a shot off at the Hurri's left front (required full rudder deflection to do it) and got the kill.  I got the front quarter shot due to using a "nose to nose turn" (basic ACM) and the Zero's better turn rate (the Hurri did not have the angle for a return shot when I fired).  Next thing I know there is a whine from the opponent claiming I HO'd him.  I explained to him he was not "HO'd", but simply out turned by a Zero.

Bottom line is that it takes two to HO and can be easily sidestepped either party.  After the first turn in an engagement it is now an angles shot and not an "HO" (that includes B&Z fighting).   

TShark

"If you're alone and meet a lone Zero, run like hell you're outnumbered!" - Joe Foss, USMC

[gyrene81]

I'm not giving you my opinion.  I'm telling you how it has been defined in the community for years. There is only one correct definition of a HO shot.  

Never realized this community was the ultimate authority in the definition of head on. I'm guessing ole Steve here is the chairman of the board for the head on definition committee? Might want to find another expert...Steve is failing.

Aside from the obvious fact that it was a very risky maneuver in aerial combat, head on in aerial combat terms has always meant 2 or more aircraft moving toward each other at any angle in which if that angle of travel (12, 11, 1 o'clock high or low) was maintained to the point of impact, it would result in the aircraft colliding with each other along the frontal section of the airplane...and that could be anywhere between the propeller to the front of the cockpit.

It does take at least 2 aircraft to HO or merge head on...regardless of whether or not shots are fired or who has a firing solution. What is and has been considered a HO here in toonville pile-it world is one or both persons firing in a 12 o'clock level merge...everything else is considered a deflection shot.

[Steve]

Never realized this community was the ultimate authority in the definition of head on.

outside of the community, how the headon shot is defined is completely moot, considering we are only discussing how it is defined  here in our community. So yes, for the sake of our discussion the community is the ultimate authority. Define it however you want outside the game.  You chafe my ankle noob.

[gyrene81]

outside of the community, how the headon shot is defined is completely moot, considering we are only discussing how it is defined  here in our community. So yes, for the sake of our discussion the community is the ultimate authority. Define it however you want outside the game.  You chafe my ankle noob.

It's defined the same way everywhere there is an IQ level above shoe sizes. When you become an "expert authority" in anything besides toon pile-it wannabe ace...then you can offer something besides a humble opinion...until then, keep it humble.

[ACE]

This is getting good

[Kermit de frog]

Uhhh no.   Two to merge, one to HO

Amen.

Takes 2 to merge, but only 1 to fire.

[Scotch]

23 years of history make the AW/AH community the ultimate authority within these servers.
Steve happens to be the one trying to help clue you in.

[Steve]

It's defined the same way everywhere there is an IQ level above shoe sizes. When you become an "expert authority" in anything besides toon pile-it wannabe ace...then you can offer something besides a humble opinion...until then, keep it humble.

You're making the same ignorarant assumptions as another before you. I'm only regurgitating the long standing definition of a Ho shot for the purposes of this game.  I'm not taking credit for said definition. At first I was trying to pass on this infomation.  Now  I'm merely trying to  stop morons from changing it because they like to argue and are misinformed.

[gyrene81]

23 years of history make the AW/AH community the ultimate authority within these servers.
Steve happens to be the one trying to help clue you in.

You're making the same ignorarant assumptions as another before you. I'm only regurgitating the long standing definition of a Ho shot for the purposes of this game.  I'm not taking credit for said definition. At first I was trying to pass on this infomation.  Now  I'm merely trying to  stop morons from changing it because they like to argue and are misinformed.

Really, and I'm betting you still think Columbus was the first European to step foot on the North American continent, and there are Martians on Mars.

23 years of error do not make it correct...regardless of what you might want reality to be...fact is the current way of thinking is the reason all the whining goes on.

[Steve]

Really, and I'm betting you still think Columbus was the first European to step foot on the North American continent, and there are Martians on Mars.

23 years of error do not make it correct...regardless of what you might want reality to be...fact is the current way of thinking is the reason all the whining goes on.

So people have been wrong for 23 years, because some noob comes on the scene and says so? 
I guess it wouldn't matter how many people told you the same definition.  You'd just tell them all that they are wrong and you are right.   
.

Your head is in the sand right next to your squaddie. Birds of a feather suck at this game and are stupid together.

[The Fugitive]

I love it when the "new guys" show up and tell us "old guys" how we have been wrong for all of these years.  LOL!!!

[BnZs]

Gyrene:
Most of the "vets" you are arguing with are good marksmen who could "HO" anyone to death on virtually every merge if they so desired, and the only thing you could do about would be to HO back, buying *at best* a chance their wreckage would hit the earth before yours did.

The simple realization that this game would be a rather boring waste of time if everyone did it is the REAL reason the HO is frowned upon.
 

[gyrene81]

So people have been wrong for 23 years, because some noob comes on the scene and says so? 
I guess it wouldn't matter how many people told you the same definition.  You'd just tell them all that they are wrong and you are right.   
.

Your head is in the sand right next to your squaddie. Birds of a feather suck at this game and are stupid together.

Uh huh...and you're an ace toon pile-it since what, 2002? Oooooh...I'm so enthralled by your genius in a video game. You should get out of the house once in a while and let real life bring you back to reality.

Gyrene:
Most of the "vets" you are arguing with are good marksmen who could "HO" anyone to death on virtually every merge if they so desired, and the only thing you could do about would be to HO back, buying *at best* a chance their wreckage would hit the earth before yours did.

The simple realization that this game would be a rather boring waste of time if everyone did it is the REAL reason the HO is frowned upon.
 

No offense man but I can't believe you used the words "good marksmen" to identify some skill by video gamers flying virtual airplanes with simulated machine guns and cannons. But I do agree the game would be a severe bore if everyone did it...happens enough as it is, even by the "vets".

[BnZs]

No offense man but I can't believe you used the words "good marksmen" to identify some skill by video gamers flying virtual airplanes with simulated machine guns and cannons. But I do agree the game would be a severe bore if everyone did it...happens enough as it is, even by the "vets".

Ummm...I could have said "good shot" and had exactly the same meaning, what words would you SUGGEST I use? Geez...

And if you agree that that the game would be mostly boring and pointless if everyone simply decided to HO all the time, then why the devil are you arguing with people because they frown on the HO? I repeat: If someone who shoots as well as Steve decided to fly a heavily armed bird and HO, he'd end your sortie on every fair merge just about each every time. You MIGHT get lucky and ruin his day also if you HOed back. If you tried to duck/avoid the HO you'd get tagged with a "Front quarter snapshot" most of the time and thus learn why the old "It takes two to HO" saw is asinine. The general concensus that HOing with the attendant M.A.D. is bad mmmkaaaay? is what allows us to have an enjoyable flight game.