Author Topic: collisions and ho-ing revisited  (Read 1613 times)

Offline Sc00ter

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 87
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2009, 08:16:06 PM »
I'm curious: How?

Stay in the Tower  :O   No but really can't they?
No Fat Chicks on this Sc00ter

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2009, 08:18:27 PM »
Stay in the Tower  :O   No but really can't they?
It is the perfect solution for an imperfect internet.

See Rule #4

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23876
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2009, 08:18:55 PM »
No but really can't they?

You said it can be fixed... All HTC now just needs is your knowledge about how to do that ;)

Still curious :)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline shppr01

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2289
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2009, 08:23:06 PM »
As you wish, M'lord


Lookt at this: It's the exact moment of a collision, from both players viewpoints (films)

On the P-51's screen it looks like this:
(Image removed from quote.)

On the P-47 screen, it looks like this:
(Image removed from quote.)

You are the P-47...you see the things on screenshot #2.... would you still say YOU should go down?
i dont want to sound stupid but why is it differenty in the screens when you should be seeing the same thing?
Ingame : Shipper

Never put your gun down to hug a grizzly.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2009, 08:23:44 PM »
You said it can be fixed... All HTC now just needs is your knowledge about how to do that ;)

Still curious :)
I'm betting he has developed "warp speed internet"... he is just waiting for the patent to clear. ;)
See Rule #4

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23876
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2009, 08:24:36 PM »
i dont want to sound stupid but why is it differenty in the screens when you should be seeing the same thing?


Lag.
Signals have to travel from your opponents computer to you via the HTC server (an of course other way around too). This takes time, hence the disparity of "realities" between yours and his screen.

Read this: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2009, 08:29:09 PM »

I guess it's time for another round of physics lesson: Understanding the Theory of Collisional Relativity

Albert Kweainstein, who replaced the basic Kweatonian Physics and fundamentally transformed how we perceive the physics of the AH world, explains the concept of 'relativity':


Quote
Time, is not absolute. Therefore, the issue is "relativity".

When you have two planes A and B flying in the vicinity of each other, the position of the opponent plane which each pilots may perceive, is different to one another according to the speed of data transmission.

Many tend to think that the virtual skies of AH is a single, given "space" which is absolute, but in reality, it is nothing but a medium which relays data from both the computers behind plane A and plane B, and then which position is displayed in a relative manner to each other according to the speed of the connection.

It is fortunate that at least, modern internet connections are sufficient enough to bring down the disparity in positional calculations to a matter of milliseconds - but still, as long as data travels to and fro from different places of the Earth at different speeds, the "spacial reality" of AH is not absolute. The pilot of plane A may observe plane B 400 yards behind him, while the pilot of plane B may observe plane A 300 yards in front of him.

In other words, the spacial relation between both frontends of the two players are different. There are two different realities which are slightly different from one another, but similar enough to put coherently together and describe as a singular instance.

However, in collision instances, a tiny, minute difference in the two individual realities of plane A and B may decide the difference between collision or no collision. In this case, there may be an extreme difference in the two separate realities of plane A (which has been determined to be "collided") and plane B (which has been determined to be "not collided").

Now, the issue is this: in such instance where the relative difference is so extreme, should this also be treated as a singular instance? In A's reality, he has collided, so it is everybit fair to say that A should be damaged. However, in B's reality, he has not collided - and yet, must he suffer the consequence of something which did not happen to him at all?

Thus, enters the collision system of AH - which, in a rare fashion, decides to split the two, extremely different realities of plane A and B, und treat it separately.

It can not be done otherwise, since the current system means that as long as you watch yourself and do not collide on your own frontend, you will be safe. Therefore, there is no such thing as an unexplained, unexpected collision. If a collision did happen in which you are damaged and the opponent is not, what happened to the "other plane" is a non-issue. What happens to him, is what happens in his reality, not yours. The only thing which is important is what happened in your reality, and in that separate reality, you have collided, and thus, you are damaged.

The physical world of Aces High is solid in that matter. Every collision has a reason, and therefore, can be estimated or expected. Hitech does not play dice."


 - Albert Kweainstein -


In short, when a collision event happens, whether or not you take damage is entirely determined according to what happened on your frontend, your 'reality'. What happens to the other plane is none of your business, since his frontend had nothing to do with the results of what happened to your plane. What happens is decided upon the event that transpired in your version of reality, and when you hit a plane in that reality, you will be damaged.

Asking the collision to happen when only both frontends register collision, or asking for the other plane (in his reality) to register a collision when you have, is like saying that you should drop dead when a parallel version of yourself in a parallel dimension is hit by a car, when you in your own dimension, did not.

Gee, that sounds fair, eh?


« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 08:31:16 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2009, 08:40:25 PM »
A small footnote:

There has been issues about seemingly mysterious circumstances surrounding what happens in the film viewer. Some scientists have come up with evidence showing both frontends going into an event which seems to clearly suggest that collisions happened at both realities - but only one plane receives damage.


This phenomenon is nowadays explained by another set of fundamental Physics set by Werner Kweaizenberg and his Theory of Film-viewing Uncertainty.

Quote
...It is now known that the film-viewer does not necessarily record exactly what happened during the exact given moment - at best, the film-viewer is a recording which attempts to log the variables of the actual event, and recreates it into its own version reality in a small, simulated world which mimics the actual MA environment.

Therefore, when conflicting data is recorded due to lag issues, the very attempt to objectively log what had transpired, becomes screwed, and thus results in a mismatch between the actual event, and the re-enactment of the actual event in the film-viewer world.

Therefore, there is no certain way to exactly foresee, estimate, and confirm where the two individual planes A and B are in their different frontends at real time - the very act of recording the event holds a possibility that the recorded interpretation of the actual event may be wrong.

- Werner Kweaizenberg -

Offline LLogann

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4947
      • Candidz.com
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2009, 08:59:09 PM »
Well Now...............




In essence, the only turning off ALL collisions can solve the debate.  And that ain't happening.
See Rule #4
Now I only pay because of my friends.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2009, 09:08:43 PM »
Well Now...............




In essence, the only turning off ALL collisions can solve the debate.  And that ain't happening.

After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23876
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2009, 09:11:17 PM »
After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?

Mostly because there is always a new generation of players.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2009, 09:20:44 PM »
And no one else wants to listen to the link I posted. :)
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline cactuskooler

  • Skinner Team
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2009, 10:44:43 PM »
How am I supposed to kill baduns without collisions?

cactus
80th FS "Headhunters"

Noseart

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: collisions and ho-ing revisited
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2009, 10:48:27 PM »
After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?

cause there can be.  :D
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)