P-39Q-Some information and tricks with it.

[Nemisis]

doesn't that pretty much cover every plane in the set? 

IDK, I've pulled some dumb stuff in a P-51, a C-47, a P-47, a Fw190D, an Fw190A8, a B-24, a B-26, a B-25, a C205, an A6M, a jeep, etc. I landed all the planes out in a clearing in the middle of a furball and made it back at one point in my gaming careear. As for the Jeep, I was circiling around a tank when he was trying to get me, I just kept going round and round, round and round. I even got an assist (shot at him till MG, was empty then drove off).

It is a statement of fact that the P-39 does not have any advantages over these planes, except perhaps the fact that it can take a heavy punch and keep on flying. Your statement would be more accurate if you said the P-39 is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting.

Now if the P-39 were fast enough to disengage from the gaggles of uber-turners *and* run down some of the stuff it *does* outmaneuver fairly easily (Your Jugs, your Ponies, your 190s and Typhs, etc), things would be alot better. P-63 anyone?

Well, yes, but I've beaten pilots in atleast the upper teir, when they were flying slightly supperior planes to mine, but that is luck. My point is a superior plane in the hands of a good pilot doesn't mean a sure thing, they could run out of fuel, overshoot, etc., or make any of the simple mistakes that will kill you in a fight.

[BnZs]

"is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting."

Isnt thats what they all do it win?

No, there are many possible matchups where all one pilot has to do to kill/drive off his lesser opponent is avoid large mistakes, at least from a Co-E or better start.


 

Wing loading list at 50 fuel, clean, best to worst:

Spit XVI: 30.15 ft lbs
P-39Q: 33.35 ft lbs
Ki-84: 33.85 ft lbs
N1K2: 34.23 ft lbs
F6F: 35.13 ft lbs
F4U-1D: 36.51 ft lbs
P-38J: 50.37 ft lbs

Thats just one attribute, hardly the worst. Im not going to argue flaps and corner speeds, im simply pointing out that its a false statement to say it has no advanatages over any of the others.
 

IIRC, Widewing's tests indicated the P-39 is one of those planes which isn't turning as well as the wingloading comparison would seem to indicate...along the lines of our P-51 and Ki-61.IOW  IIRC, it is out-turned by the XVI, Ki, Nik, and Corsair. I didn't see the P-38 on the original list.

[Boozeman]

Squire,

Just FYI, the P39s are more or less my most used ride since the last 20 tours... I speak of experience, not out of the blue sky. I know the limits of the plane very well, thus my quick and dirty list of planes that will give the P39Q a very hard time.  Do I engage those planes on that list - I have to - those are very common MA planes, so there is plenty of comparison. And the result is, all those planes can finish the 39Q easily, when flown correctly. And therein lies the problem - most MA pilots do not know how to fly correctly, let alone extract 100% of a plane. That is the reason that I kill way more Spit16s for example in a 39 (D and Q) then vice versa - and not because the 39 is a good match for the Spit.

Also, your wingloading example is a bit oversimplified, there are other factors that play an important role in a turnfight too: powerloading, flap deployment etc. 

   

[Squire]

I probably misunderstood the "tone" of your post, mistaking your list of "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competative way" with "planes its clearly outclassed by", you better just run and pray.

...Re the wing loading, yes, I understand that, but I was pointing out that blanket statements about how its "just plain inferior"; either by insinuation or plainly stated, are just factually wrong. It has its strengths too. It really has no great problem in a turning contest vs many of the MA rides, especially if its not overloaded with fuel, or has the draggy gondolas on it, and it has other attributes that are superior in certain regimes, which I listed already. 

[Boozeman]

I probably misunderstood the "tone" of your post, mistaking your list of "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competitive way" with "planes its clearly outclassed by", you better just run and pray.

...Re the wing loading, yes, I understand that, but I was pointing out that blanket statements about how its "just plain inferior"; either by insinuation or plainly stated, are just factually wrong. It has its strengths too. It really has no great problem in a turning contest vs many of the MA rides, especially if its not overloaded with fuel, or has the draggy gondolas on it, and it has other attributes that are superior in certain regimes, which I listed already. 

No, you did not misunderstand it - against those planes it really comes just down to pray - because running is not an option either - hehe. But I'll state it again : This only applies to a co-E, similar pilot skill situation. If you can feast on a 5k alt advantage or on a lesser pilot, then it's really like as you said: "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competitive way".

Regarding your second paragraph, I really cannot give the 39Q any credit of having any advantage against those planes, even in the cleanest condition. That's my experience at least, but hey, that's just me...

So, just as an example, what do you think what advantage(s) the 39Q has over, say, the F4U-1 (or any other plane on that list for that matter) ? Trust me, if there is anything I haven't considered yet, I need to know it ASAP! 
 

[Squire]

F4U-1 turn radius with no flaps; 674 ft. P-39Q same condition; 609 ft (and I don't know if thats with or without the gondos). Like I said, there are certain regimes that it might have an edge, even if its small, it depends on the circumstance and vs what a/c.

I give a big   to you for flying the P-39, its nice to see somebody else will take her up. Its a very fun ride, at the least.

Regards.

[Enker]

There are 24 P-39Q slots available in the next scenario.  Come fly it in historical situations. 

That is correct Fencer

Nemisis, come fly with 212 GvIAP in the scenario, we could always use some pilots.

Also, do not be afraid to take the P-39 up above the "15k alt limit." I was recently flying against a Yak, and kept following him up, past the cloud layer to ~22,000 feet. She is a stubborn bird up there, but she will still turn with coaxing. WEP really helps up there. Dives very well. Practice with the 37mm, and you should start getting one hit kills.

[Greziz]

The best way to defeat a niki in or a la7 in a 39 I have found is coax that sucker to get 400-600 off you at 10k alt or so going about 250-300 then dive hard hit 450-500 mph and flat turn or slight yo yo turn hard niki and la7's lose this turn to the 39 fast and if they dare to follow you to long you will be on their arse so fast they will have no choice but to run and pray you cant kill them. if they give up on following in dive dont just dive out you lose speed fast hang on to that alt desperately your opponent will cling and get greedy then if you cant accomplish the 450 ish mph fake like you can they will know you cant and stay on you this time only when you see them commit chop throttle kick rudder pull hard up and a bit of turn wait for them to over shoot underneath lvl flat and climb with them cutting in hard most people see the over shoot but believe if you follow them in the stream they know they can out zoom and win but you actually predict this simple counter and very very early on move in towards their wide climb zone and work on a good lead turn that will land you on their bum. Now if they recognize their imminent death some people will they will simply extend you should proceed to climb again dont give up alt for a futile chase.

[Nemisis]

Nemisis, come fly with 212 GvIAP in the scenario, we could always use some pilots.

Also, do not be afraid to take the P-39 up above the "15k alt limit."

I would if I could Enker, but I've been locked for lack of payment, and an education comes first.  I'll be back on anywhere between Dec 25 all the way out to Feb1. I'll gladly fly with you anytime...

As for the alt limit, I always push the envelope of planes: I'll dogfight a zero in an FW190D, maybe not TnB with it, but I won't run...

[Brooke]

I've flown the P-39D a fair amount.  It is quite a decent plane -- not a crappy plane as folks would think from reading historical information about it.  It's fairly fast down low, turns OK, and handles and rolls well even at very high speeds.  This latter point is useful against any planes whose controls get very stiff at high speeds (some of the Japanese planes, many of the 109's, for example), or that hit compressibility, or that come apart at high speeds (Ki-84's, for example).

No, you won't outturn a Spit in a stallfight -- but you can definitely hold your own in any type of multiplane fight, stallfights included.

Also, it's a rather small plane, so harder to hit.

So, you can turn hard in fights with most planes (except maybe Zeros, Hurris, Buffaloes, F4F's, FM2's -- but you are faster than those).  You can use its good response at high speed against planes that are sluggish handlers at high speed (Zero, many 109's, Spit I).