P-38 kill ratio...out of whack.

[Ack-Ack]

I'm asking for the film (proof) you're demanding I post.  


Shenanigans is the wrong term. That implies cheating. I'm asking if the flight model is acurate or is Martix performing weird physics for p-38 in the vertical.

And I'm asking what performance specs suggest the P-38 shouldn't have the vertical performance it does in-game? 


ack-ack

[EskimoJoe]

Most scientific thread evar 

[Vinkman]

I might be wrong but an object falls at 2.2 feet per second reguardless of weight.  If you take a quarter and penny and drop them at the same time, they hit the ground at the same time.  If both the heavier bullet and lighter bullet is traveling the same speed, they should fall at the same rate.  If I'm wrong please explain.  I shoot alot of weapons and I figure not of the wieght of the bullet but the traveling speed of the bullet to find my 100-1000 yrds drop zones. 

You are sort of correct. All objects accelerate towards the ground at the same rate, regardless of mass (weight).  The 2.2 ft/s is not correct. All objects accelerate at 32.2ft/sec/sec due to gravity. So after 1 sec they would falling at 32ft/s

[SunBat]

I might be wrong but an object falls at 2.2 feet per second reguardless of weight.  If you take a quarter and penny and drop them at the same time, they hit the ground at the same time.  If both the heavier bullet and lighter bullet is traveling the same speed, they should fall at the same rate.  If I'm wrong please explain.  I shoot alot of weapons and I figure not of the wieght of the bullet but the traveling speed of the bullet to find my 100-1000 yrds drop zones. 

 The acceleration due to gravity is 32.2 ft per second squared. That means that an object gains another 32.2 feet per second every second as it falls. In a vacuum, all things on earth fall at 32.2 ft/sec^2 regardless of weight and even more importantly shape. Outside of a vacuum there is wind resistance (and other factors) that cause objects to fall at different accelerations. 

I type this on my phone so I'll stop now but one last thing:

2.2 tootsies per second is really slow.

[Vinkman]

And I'm asking what performance specs suggest the P-38 shouldn't have the vertical performance it does in-game? 

Climb rate is a good comparison. 38 vertical performance should not be better than planes with better climb rates.

[BnZs]

Climb rate is a good comparison. 38 vertical performance should not be better than planes with better climb rates.

Why exactly should it not be?

Thrust weight ratio, the dominant factor in climb rate, is only one positive factor in zoom climbs. Another is low drag. And you keep conveniently trying to forget perhaps the most important factor in P-38 vertical performance, ability to be nose-up at full power at very low airspeed and still remain in control because of torqueless operation.

[MjTalon]

Climb rate is a good comparison. 38 vertical performance should not be better than planes with better climb rates.

Debatable. Think about a lot of planes with a better climb rate ( Spit 16, 109K, etc ) all of those planes are single engined, meaning they have torque which the P-38 does not, thus allowing the P-38 to shine in the vertical because it does not have torque to fight when it's in the vertical.

Not hard at all to see Vink.  

[ink]

no matter how much you guys talk up the 38 I still cant fly that thing at all, and I am amazed at how some of the better sticks are in it, and think to my self, man I'm glad he's not in a spit

[BnZs]

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,266321.0.html

This is the thread where the aero whizzes we have on the forum explained the physics behind zoom performance in an aircraft. I myself thought "ballistic coefficient" would be a significant factor in aircraft zoom performance, but turns out it is not. The two most important factors are high thrust and low drag. And the physics also imply that the rough parity you get testing most all aircraft in AHII in zooms from the same speed is probably accurate.

[Raptor]

no matter how much you guys talk up the 38 I still cant fly that thing at all, and I am amazed at how some of the better sticks are in it, and think to my self, man I'm glad he's not in a spit

Actually, I find I have gotten so use to the slow responsiveness of the P38; when I fly in KOTH in a spit, I turn so quickly I don't have time for ACM 

[B4Buster]

One of my biggest problems flying something like a Ki84, Spit, or Corsair is leading my target too much. Many  times I have collided because I've turned too sharp

[thorsim]

ok i am back from my weekend trip and i see many of you have been having a good time in my absence ...

lots of stuff that i feel the need to comment on, this may take some time ...

they're not airbrakes. they do nothing to slow you down. they;re also not on the G or the J. 

the 38's flaps mimic the ones in real life. the 38 was designed with maneuvering flaps.

you are incorrect sir the flaps, B-R-A-K-E-S, or whatever else you call them slow you down.

easy to check just deploy any of them (including any follower types) in level flight and see what they do while you maintain level flight.  they will slow you down.

they also do other things but they all increase drag(usually several different kinds of drag) and drag reduces your speed "."

++S++
 
t

[BnZs]

ok i am back from my weekend trip and i see many of you have been having a good time in my absence ...

lots of stuff that i feel the need to comment on, this may take some time ...

you are incorrect sir the flaps, B-R-A-K-E-S, or whatever else you call them slow you down.

easy to check just deploy any of them (including any follower types) in level flight and see what they do while you maintain level flight.  they will slow you down.

they also do other things but they all increase drag(usually several different kinds of drag) and drag reduces your speed "."

++S++
 
t

IIRC Widewing tested it, and the P-38L's dive flaps *do not* slow you down in AHII. Which is wierd, they should provide *some* drag, hanging out in the breeze and all, but they do not.

[Vinkman]

Why exactly should it not be?

Thrust weight ratio, the dominant factor in climb rate, is only one positive factor in zoom climbs. Another is low drag.

Are you saying that P-38s have less drag than other planes. (Drag force) = (frontal area)*(drag coeficient). Assuming these planes are all streamlined (Coeficient of drag in .15 range) the frontal area of a P-38 is slightly less than twice that of most single engine fighters. That's why it needs twice the horse power to go slightly faster (top speed). Planes with higher power to weight ratios would have more power left over to overcome drag losses when climbing. Hence they climb faster. I'm pretty sure drag is factored into climb rate, so I don' think this is not a missed point on my part.  

[texastc316]

Thorsim, we ve moved on to a different deadhorse to beat while you were gone, sorry.