Tiffy Trim/Torque Characteristics

[Vermillion]

Is it just me or does the Typhoon have some really strange trim/torque characteristics??

To me it feels very much like the early C.205 models that wouldn't fly straight except in autopilot mode. And just one or two clicks of trim cause an overcorrection and it just goes in the opposite directions.

Actually the Typhoon is everything I expected, except for these strange problems. Here are a couple I can point to specifically.

1.) Elevator seems overly sensitive to input in nose down situations, causing lots of redouts from minimal j/k input. While on the other hand its almost impossible to pull the nose up.

2.) In dive situations, it seems like the left wing is wanting to drop causing a roll. And it seems to increase as speed increases. Is this correct?

3.)In right hand turns (which should be its strong side), the plane wants to crab more than actually perform a turn. Hard to describe this one.

Maybe I am off base here, but I was under the impression that the Typhoon, was a fairly docile aircraft (no tricky tendecies), and was an extremely stable gun platform. Which is what made it such a stellar ground attack aircraft.

Right now it feels more like the 109G10, where you have to fight the trim constantly. But this aircraft is much larger and heavier than the 109, and I wouldn't expect these kinds of flight characteristics.

I don't expect it too turn well (its actually better than I expected), and I expect to see torque effects at low speeds.

But the very touchy trim, constantly "hunting/wandering" nose tendencies make me think something is not quite right.



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[funked]

From a technical view, it seems like it should have some issues.  It's got a huge motor (lots of weight and torque) and relatively small tail surfaces.  Also the nose is very short, suggesting that the center of gravity is further aft than most planes.  Those factors are all recipe for trim problems.

I have not read many flying impressions of the Tiffy but I have heard about an abrupt accelerated stall and difficulty controlling the aircraft in dives.

Remember that the Tempest was an attempt to correct design flaws in the Typhoon.  I think it's possible our Typhoon is exhibiting some of those very design flaws.

Typhoons became ground attack aircraft because they were deemed unsuitable for the air-superiority role, and they had a large load-carrying capacity.

That said, I love the plane.  It's a handful but it really rewards a smooth touch.  The wingloading is not bad at all if you look at it.  I've been able to get on the tail of a few "dogfighter" planes more easily than one would expect.  And if I fail to do so, nothing can catch me below 10k if I choose to leave.      


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-10-2000).]

[wells]

Keep in mind that the prop goes the opposite way to most and is about a foot larger than a p-47's or F4u's prop, turning 1000 rpm more!

I have one pilot account of flying one of the earlier ones with the 3 blade prop and framed canopy

"Stability and control were excellent, with good damping, and in combat maneuvers I felt that the Typhoon showed good promise for so large a fighter.  Particularly impressive was  gun-aiming stability, and even in a ground attack type dive into rough air at low level with 400 mph on the ASI, the gunsight aiming spot could be held well on the target.  In a clattering but impressive full-power zoom climb, we went back to about 15000 ft for a dive to the pilots' notes limit of 500 mph.

This came up quickly in a 30 degree dive and was impressive for high vibration and noise level in the cockpit.  Damping on all exes remained good but, although control forces were heavying up, there was still adequate contollability in pitch and roll for combat to be practical at this speed, especially as gun-aiming stability seemed unimpaired...."

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Is it just me or does the Typhoon have some really strange trim/torque characteristics??

1.) Elevator seems overly sensitive to input in nose down situations, causing lots of redouts from minimal j/k input. While on the other hand its almost impossible to pull the nose up.

2.) In dive situations, it seems like the left wing is wanting to drop causing a roll. And it seems to increase as speed increases. Is this correct?

1) You might try to scale down your stick scaling.

2) That is because torque effects gets less with speed, you could simulate it by turning engine off in level flight on manual.

It does exist in every plane, you get more speed, torque gets less and plane is trimmed to counter torque, but there isnt that much torque anymore.

Funked: One thing that I remember, there were some problems with it's rudder or tail structure.

[Vermillion]

I will try that Fishu, but I would be suprised if it helps much. My joystick is already setup for fairly conservative P-51 and F4U flying already, and I figured the Typhoon to be similar. But I will try.

I understand what your saying about the reduction of torque with speed, causing the wing drop. I still think it is overly amplified with the Tiffy though.

I still think it feels like the early Maachi FM, where the trim was impossible. I have faith in Pyro though, he is good about listening to our comments on FM's  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Hehe, funked   lets have a a little game some day, you in that Typhoon and me in my La-5FN..  see if you can outrun me at 7k..

[Vermillion]

Hey Sorrow, just think if we ever get our long promised La-7   Muhhahahaha

Nahh... we'll probably end up with another 4 Fw190 & Bf109 variants, and another 3 American Fighters first  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[funked]

Hehehe Sorrow you haven't seen speed vs. altitude chart yet for the Tiffie I guess.  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
I will try that Fishu, but I would be suprised if it helps much. My joystick is already setup for fairly conservative P-51 and F4U flying already, and I figured the Typhoon to be similar. But I will try.

I understand what your saying about the reduction of torque with speed, causing the wing drop. I still think it is overly amplified with the Tiffy though.

I still think it feels like the early Maachi FM, where the trim was impossible. I have faith in Pyro though, he is good about listening to our comments on FM's  

Typhoon must be most affected by torque in the game..
It's torque is TREMENDOUS! (in AH)

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Oh I know it's fast ..

But it's NOT fast enough. I can do 395MPH at 7k in an La-5FN and the La-7 will be even FASTER.
But the kicker is that the La accelerated to this speed in about 25-45 seconds. That's about 40 seconds faster than a tiffie could, if it even CAN with out a shallow dive.
  For comparison a G-10 can almost catch up with me in speed in the charts, but in reality needs a good dive or about 60-90 seconds to get to that speed.

So the tiffie hasn't won any races yet against russian hardware..  frankly I doubt it ever will against the russian interceptors. Low level high speed was their strongest point.

[funked]

Sorrow, I only get about 377 mph in the La-5FN at 7k, and this matches the HTC charts.

In the Typhoon I get 415 mph at that altitude.

Sure the Lavochkin has great acceleration, but the gap in top speeds is rather large.    

If I see you online we shall go to training and have a race.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-12-2000).]

[funked]

Here's a couple of flying impressions of the Typhoon:
 http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/tempest/tbshow/checkout.htm
 http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/typhoon/rb_typh.htm

 

I tightened my straps, released the brakes, carefully aligned myself on the white line down the middle of the concrete and slowly opened the throttle, with my left foot hard down on the rudder bar.

I had been warned that Typhoons swung, but surely not as much as this! And the brute gathered speed like a rocket! I corrected as much as I could with the brakes, but even then I found myself drifting dangerously to the right.

Half way down the runway my right wheel was practically on the grass. If I came off the concrete I would gracefully flip on my back!

To hell with it! I tore her off the ground.

This plane just had no lateral stability at all. I still went on drifting to starboard and, with those miserable ailerons that only 'bit' at speeds higher than 100 m.p.h. I daren't lower my port wing too much.

...

In desperation I did a vertical climb, without the engine. This took me up about 3,000 feet but it reduced my speed to about 200 m.p.h. At this low speed the machine was horribly unstable, and letting down the undercart had an unexpected effect on the centre of gravity. Once again, though I had been warned, I was taken by surprise, this time by terrific swings, more like incipient spins than anything else.

Sounds like our Typhoon!

[Minotaur]

Strap 2x1k bombs to her belly and try to take off.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[funked]

No problem, use 1 notch flaps and let the tail come up, then pull up gradually at about 120 mph.  

[Citabria]

man I think the coolest pilot error I had in AH was in the tyffy was with 2 1k bombs  


they so far out on the wings from the center that when i dropped one on a tank from low alt and airspeed when I pitched up slightly i snap rolled like a demon with that 1k bomb hanging on way out on the other wing  

I love how dang different the tyffy feels to fly with all its tempermental characteristics