Author Topic: Any plans on TA152? (Read 1991 times)

mx22 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 07, 2000, 11:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ash:
Wish I had my references with me but I don't. There were 2<?> Ta152 aces, and I think the final missions for the 152 were protecting Me262s during landings and take offs. <Though they were designed for high alt intercept.> Granted there had been less than 80 planes active by the end of the war, but they were involved in combat. Would be nice to have a Ta152 in the Defense of the Riech colors < I would perfer orange and red strips!>
I would love to to see the Ta152 fly, but do agree the Dora is required first! < ...And there shall be great wailing and gnashing of teeth that day.. > :-).

OTR,
Ash
I./JG2

In different thread someone asked for BF109-K14 and I answered sure if you also model F8F, SpitXIX and rest of Allied late war/ prototype planes that didn't reach frontlines. But would it be interesting to see people fly only these planes? Personally I joined the game to play WW2 planes, not prototypes.

mx22

Wilbus · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2000, 11:53:00 AM »

MM, yes, it was wrong of me to compare the P47M and the Ta152 speeds, you're right about that it depends on the altitude and lots of other aspects. But they were both high alt planes and about as fast.
Belive the Ta152 H-1 had a speed of 472 Mph (don't know the alt) and the P47M 470Mph (don't know wich alt there either).
As to how many Ta152's that saw action, I belive it was 12 H-0 planes.

Like I said, I am an LW guy and have no problem at all if HTC add very late war Allied planes that didn't see much action.
It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.

Bring em on!

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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"

Ash · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2000, 01:00:00 PM »

mx22,

I'm missing your point. Ta152 was not a prototype and should be considered a WWII AC. Will need help here, but the ace recorded at least 10-12 kills in Ta152s exclusively. That claim cannot be made for the Bearcat, and P47M/N.

Ash
I./JG2

mx22 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 07, 2000, 01:02:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus:

It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.

That's the problem. Allied planes were tested far from combat areas. In addition Allies already had air superiority and didn't had to rush their planes into service. That's the reason LW had so many advanced fighters in the acctual service, while Allies relied upon proven designs.

P.S. I'll be happy with whatever planeset we will have, as far as it will contain advanced planes for ALL the nations, not just one or two. Though, of course, as I mentioned above, nothing beats mid-war planeset for me

mx22

mx22 · « **Reply #34 on:** August 07, 2000, 01:11:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ash:
I'm missing your point. Ta152 was not a prototype and should be considered a WWII AC. Will need help here, but the ace recorded at least 10-12 kills in Ta152s exclusively. .

Ash
I./JG2

Where did you found Ta-152 aces with 10-12 kills? The only Ta152 ace I know of is Josef Keil credited with 5 kills in Ta152. I've got "Focke-Wulf TA 152 The Story of the Luftwaffe's Late-War, High-Altitude Fighter" book by Dietmar Harmann here with me and he's the only guy who mentioned there as an ace in Ta-152 (at least that's what I have found so far, I'll look again though I doubt there is more info).

P.S. If you like the plane so much go get this book. Read about how many planes were planned to test and how many were acctually built. Germany was desperate for a new high altitude interseptor and that's why Ta152 was forced into the service even though testing wasn't nowhere nearly finished and planes were constantly braking down.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 08-07-2000).]

Vermillion · « **Reply #35 on:** August 07, 2000, 01:43:00 PM »

MX22 is right, the book he references is the best I have EVER seen for the Ta-152. If your a Ta152/Fw190 devotee its a must.

Wilbus, there were a total of 48 production model Ta-152s completed total, with probably 2-3 times that many partially completed airframes that were captured by the Allies when they overan the factories. There were 2 Ta-152C's, and 46 Ta-152H0's. If a Ta152H1 ever saw combat it was one of the prototypes, and even that is highly in question according to FockeWulf factory records.

Also at least half of the production aircraft never saw combat due to being destroyed on the ground by Allied aircraft strafing. For instance on 16 January 45, 14 brand new aircraft were destroyed on the ground at Cottbus. The largest total combat strength of Ta152's ever was the initial shipment of 11 aircraft to III/JG301 on 27 January 45. Typical combat strength thereafter was 7 to 8 aircraft.

Ash, the story that Ta-152's were used to cover the airfields for the landings and takeoffs for the Me262 is a total myth. The book listed above goes into this in great detail.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Wilbus · « **Reply #36 on:** August 07, 2000, 02:03:00 PM »

Like I said vermilion, the planes that saw action were the H-0's.
I never said that the H-1 saw action, I just said that it had a top speed of 472Mph.

Like Ash said, there were Aces in the Ta152 and that makes it an operational WW2 Airplane.

The Do335 however, never saw action nor did they have any finnished aircraft before the war ended. THAT makes it a "What if..." plane.

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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"

mx22 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 07, 2000, 02:14:00 PM »

Wilbus,

In your words all of the Allied late war planes/prototypes that even got more testing and flying time before the end of the war then LW's Ta152 are not eligable as WW2 fighters.
Once again, if Germany would not have been so desperate for a new fighter design, Ta-152 would have never went into operational service. In the book mentioned above, p107 one of the pilots who flew Ta152s says that his unit's 8 Ta152s (Stab JG11) "all apperead to have been test aircraft since no two were alike". If that's what you call production model planes capable of full operational status, then I will have to agree with you, but I doubt anyone here will make such a claim.

mx22

funked · « **Reply #38 on:** August 07, 2000, 03:08:00 PM »

Ash and Wilbus, P-47M and P-47N flew way more sorties than Ta 152, probably more than Fw 190D. P-47N service against Japan was quite extensive.

Some Do 335 were finished well before the end of the war.

P-51H and F8F were in full production, and in service with combat-ready units. But they were not needed to defeat the axis, so they weren't hurried into battle like some of the Nazis' planes.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-07-2000).]

Wilbus · « **Reply #39 on:** August 07, 2000, 06:29:00 PM »

Ok MX22, let's get this straight once and for all. I have never EVER said that the Allied planes aren't worty as WW2 planes, I said the EXACT opposite man!

Wich part didn't you understand???
I said that if a P47 or any other allied plane that saw action, although little action should be seen as WORLD WAR II (TWO) Planes.
Just as the Ta152.
You are trying to turn this into me, not aproving with HTC adding allied planes because they should be better?
I haven't said this, read the above posts from me and you'll notice it.

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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"

mx22 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 07, 2000, 07:25:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus:
Originally posted by Wilbus:

It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.

How much more prove do you need?

P.S. Please try to mantain freindly conversation here. I might have misunderstood you somewhere, but I guess it's not the reason to start the war.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 08-07-2000).]

Dune · « **Reply #41 on:** August 07, 2000, 11:15:00 PM »

FYI, the first P-47N's arrived on Okinawa in Mar 45 with the 318th FG. Later the 413th and 507th FG's arrived in the Pacific by Jun 45.

The 318th itself scored 48 kills in the last week of May in P-47N's to the loss of just 3 planes. From what I have read, P-47N's produced at least 10 aces and scored over 100 kills between the FG's that flew it.

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Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

MC202 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 08, 2000, 01:05:00 AM »

a

[This message has been edited by MC202 (edited 08-08-2000).]

MC202 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 08, 2000, 01:08:00 AM »

OOPS, above was ment to go to Wish list thread, sorry!!!

Dino in Reno
MC202

Wilbus · « **Reply #44 on:** August 08, 2000, 03:51:00 AM »

CC, MX22, I appologize for being rude.
"It's fun as long as some of them flew in the war" does not in anyway mean that the allied planes that saw little action should be left out and the german planes that saw little action should be taken in.

I am 100% possitive yo ALL planes as long as they saw some kind of action in just more then 1 prototype. The Ta152 had about 12 aircraft that saw action and they were all H-0 model. H-0 was the only model that they produced more then 1 of I THINK, not sure though, someone please correct me there if I am wrong.

I compare this with the DO335 wich never saw any action and only had a few prototypes that took off from the airfield. They never engaged the enemy nor did the enemy engage them. I am not even sure if the Do335 flew with armement.
The Do335 is the one and only plane I want to fly more then the Ta152 but I don't want it in a WW2 sim since it never saw Action during the war.

If an allied plane, such as the P51H saw action, let's say just 10 of them, then please, add it, it would make a fine plane in there.
I don't only fly LW planes (mostly but not allways) I love the P47 so I say please add em if they saw action.

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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"