Hey greens

[BnZs]

If it was just two people in the sector and he fired from an icon range merge you may have a case. But i've been there, trust me, and it turns out after much of my noobish whining that it was actualy my fault for not showing my guns untill we had crossed paths, to keep the merge head on. Cheap shot maybe in some situations(not saying now i dont see any film), but not a 'ho'.

I can not understand the logic of this idea Bat. Flying with your guns on to the opponent until you pass does nothing to spoil their shot if they intend to HO you anyway.

[Shuffler]

An IL2 is a pretty good turn fighter.   

[Yarbles]

An IL2 is a pretty good turn fighter.   

Do you fancy a duel with my spit 9

[saantana]

Really in most cases ho's are trivial to avoid, and they are easy to spot. If your opponent is coming at you with his nose pointed directly into you, expect a ho.
If the opponent moves slightly off your nose on the merge, but not enough for you not to be able to kick your rudder and muster a cheap shot, and (then) you call it (a) 'deflection shot', I will laugh at you every time.

[JunkyII]

Really in most cases ho's are trivial to avoid, and they are easy to spot. If your opponent is coming at you with his nose pointed directly into you, expect a ho.
If the opponent moves slightly off your nose on the merge, but not enough for you not to be able to kick your rudder and muster a cheap shot, and (then) you call it (a) 'deflection shot', I will laugh at you every time.

Very well put this has happened to me alot by even some sticks that I consider better then me, 1 was even a K4 pilot who hit me with a dud tator

[Shuffler]

Do you fancy a duel with my spit 9

 

[killrDan]

It's not a HO. 1st merge, 2nd merge, 10th merge.  Looks like a clean shot to me.  I'd have taken it!   

[Ack-Ack]

You sure this here "wannabe" HO'd you?

Ran into him tonight, shoot his Spitfire Mk IX down and he immediately cries HO.  He comes back in a F4U and what does he do on the merge?  He HO's, blazes past, turns hard to reverse and merge again and, you guessed it, tries to HO again. 


ack-ack

[grizz441]

To me it looks like greens is completely ignoring ranger.  He slightly nosed down and kept his straight line vector.  I'll take this shot every single time if it looks like a plane is just trying to fly by me.

At the very least he should have tilted his wing to minimize his surface area as ranger attempted to shoot at him.  Lazy flying on greens part assuming ranger would miss the shot as he tried to fly by and run for his life.  Not a HO, not even a fight, perfectly legitimate shot in the MA and was probably the only one Ranger would get because after that pass, greens was on the deck and gone.  End of story.  Nice shot! 

[mechanic]

I can not understand the logic of this idea Bat. Flying with your guns on to the opponent until you pass does nothing to spoil their shot if they intend to HO you anyway.

There is no logic to flying Head On if you think the other guy will fire, i agree. My description is just what makes a 'HO' or 'Front Quarter' shot one or the other. If you want to claim you were truly ho'ed you need to make sure you had your guns on them when they fired.

I am not advising it as a profitable merge tactic, just describing why i don't see that screen shot as a true HO shot. It's front quarter by definition not opinion.

[saantana]

There is no logic to flying Head On if you think the other guy will fire, i agree. My description is just what makes a 'HO' or 'Front Quarter' shot one or the other. If you want to claim you were truly ho'ed you need to make sure you had your guns on them when they fired.

I am not advising it as a profitable merge tactic, just describing why i don't see that screen shot as a true HO shot. It's front quarter by definition not opinion.

?

So if I was evading, and therefore my position would be not guns on and he takes the shot anyway, that's not a ho? Come on!
Ok, if you want to be that strict about the definition, I suggest another term. Ready?

DASHO

Deflection Angle Shot HO. Whose with me? 

[morfiend]

 In my opinion a "HO" is when both A/C have a shot at each other.

 If only 1 of the A/C has a shot,then I consider it an acute angle frontal attack!

As someone has already said,it depends on pilot confidence and ability whether he takes the shot.


 Would I have taken the shot in the pic of the OP,yes! anytime I can shoot and the other guy cant hit me I'll shoot.

 If some players consider this gamey,a "HO" or {insert any term here}well as the man said"opinions vary".......

   

[mechanic]

?

So if I was evading, and therefore my position would be not guns on and he takes the shot anyway, that's not a ho? Come on!
Ok, if you want to be that strict about the definition, I suggest another term. Ready?

Lets try flipping that around, If the P51 had held his guns untill they crossed paths, would Ranger have fired?

You take evasive action when sure they other will fire, if not you are taking a small calculated risk to get an angle after the merge. Sometimes that risk doesnt pay off.

When it comes to definitions, a HO shot is one where both have a shot at the time, as stated above many times. A 'cheap shot' is a whole new topic for discussion.

[saantana]

Lets try flipping that around, If the P51 had held his guns untill they crossed paths, would Ranger have fired?

From the discussion I think Yes.

You take evasive action when sure they other will fire, if not you are taking a small calculated risk to get an angle after the merge. Sometimes that risk doesnt pay off.

Well, I always try not to be pointed at his nose. The opposite usually results in a collision after I get hoed. That's why I don't understand why your guns would be pointed at me in the first place.

When it comes to definitions, a HO shot is one where both have a shot at the time, as stated above many times. A 'cheap shot' is a whole new topic for discussion.

I guess the thing I will take away from this discussion is the definition of a ho varies depending on the pilot. For those that like taking those shots, classifying them as legit by calling them a name other than a ho lets them feel less bad about it. I just prefer calling something by its name. Ho or cheap shot, they both fall into the same category.

[mechanic]

From the discussion I think Yes.

then it would have been a ho shot

Well, I always try not to be pointed at his nose. The opposite usually results in a collision after I get hoed. That's why I don't understand why your guns would be pointed at me in the first place.

Again you confusing terminology with what is practical. Define HO shot, both guns pointing at each other, end of story. I did not say what i thought was a good tactic for anything.

I guess the thing I will take away from this discussion is the definition of a ho varies depending on the pilot. For those that like taking those shots, classifying them as legit by calling them a name other than a ho lets them feel less bad about it. I just prefer calling something by its name. Ho or cheap shot, they both fall into the same category.

Not at all, there are many forms of cheap shot but  one true HO shot. What we have here is like chinese whispers, the definitions warp over time. Cherry pick is another excuse that has become blown out of proportions, for example.