Author Topic: Remote Controlled Turrets: How?  (Read 309 times)

Offline DrSoya

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« on: August 05, 2000, 11:24:00 PM »
I keep reading about them in the B29, in the Me264, etc. but there are no explanations to how it can be.

In 1945, how the heck do you remotely control a turret? How do you aim?

What does "remote controlled" mean exactly in this case?


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DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF [AH]
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF [WB]
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

Offline Hamish

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2000, 11:48:00 PM »
to qoute a page i found today:

     "A remotely-controlled armament system had been adopted for the Model 345, since manned turrets were rejected as being impractical for the altitudes at which the B-29 would be operating. Four turrets were to be fitted, two on top and two underneath the fuselage, each with a pair of 0.50-inch machine guns. A fifth turret was in the tail and was under direct control of a tail gunner. It carried two 0.50-inch machine guns and one 20-mm cannon. Four companies competed for the contract to develop the armament system, including Bendix, General Electric, Sperry, and Westinghouse. The Sperry system involved the use of retractable turrets that were aimed by periscopic sights and won the initial contract. "

Hope that helps some  

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Hamish!
 

[This message has been edited by Hamish (edited 08-05-2000).]

skippy

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2000, 12:26:00 AM »
B29 had a central gun control station manned and other gun 'port holes (usually blisters)' that were manned positions with controls to the  gun turrets.  The central control station selected which guns were tasked to which gunner depending on which side of the aircraft was under attack, thus enabling all the turrets to be tasked to a particular "gunners" side under attack as needed or if under attack from more than one side to be tasked individually to each gun 'station'.   Oh yeah ..  nice pic Assasins  

[This message has been edited by skippy (edited 08-06-2000).]

Offline Bluefish

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2000, 12:31:00 AM »
Hmmm, I'm a bit confused after reading the two posts above.  If the turrets were aimed by periscope, what were the blisters for?  What exactly was the sight picture that each of the gunners based his firing decision on?

Offline Jigster

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2000, 02:02:00 AM »
Basically the were 3 domed windows in the tail section of the B-29 that each had a sight for the gunners to look through. A gunner would line up with his sight and the gunnery computer would aim the gun where his sight was pointing. This required communication by the men in the gunnery compartment to determine the usage of the turrent, but was not hard and they could talk to each easily with an intercom. The tail gunner was in direct control of his guns and could call upon the aft dorsal or ventral turrent if needed.

I believe the B-29 had a periscope for the bottom of the plane because there is no domed window on the bottom. I'm not real sure how the forward turrents worked, I know the rear gunners could call upon them, and that there is a sight station just aft the foward, upper turrent.

The A-26B's electric turrents are simular to the B-29's, in that the gunner sits in a rear compartment aft the bomb-bay and has control of the ventral and dorsal turrents via a periscope that he sits on, and revolves with the turrents.

- Jig

Offline Jigster

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2000, 02:04:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hamish:
to qoute a page i found today:

     "A remotely-controlled armament system had been adopted for the Model 345, since manned turrets were rejected as being impractical for the altitudes at which the B-29 would be operating. Four turrets were to be fitted, two on top and two underneath the fuselage, each with a pair of 0.50-inch machine guns. A fifth turret was in the tail and was under direct control of a tail gunner. It carried two 0.50-inch machine guns and one 20-mm cannon. Four companies competed for the contract to develop the armament system, including Bendix, General Electric, Sperry, and Westinghouse. The Sperry system involved the use of retractable turrets that were aimed by periscopic sights and won the initial contract. "

Hope that helps some    


Are you sure this isn't for the B-36? I did actually have the retractable Sperry turrents. Perhaps they held this over until the actually developement of the B-36.

- Jig


Offline Sundog

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2000, 02:07:00 PM »
Recently, I was at the Dayton Airshow. I took a cockpit tour of Fifi, the B-29 while there. The gentleman giving the tour was a former Superfortress Gunner. He explained clearly how the turret system defense worked on the B-29.

First, you had the blisters for aiming the guns. Those contained the computing gunsites (There was also a site in the nose for the bombadier to use and the tail gunner had his own, of course). They would place the center gun site pipper on the center of the enemy aircraft and track it. While they were tracking the enemy aircraft, they would also turn a knob on the gunsite that would adjust `the diameter' of a circumference of pippers so that the `ring' of piper diameter was the wingspan (actually, wingtip to wingtip..it would only be the wingspan from a tail or HO aspect) of the aircraft. You would contstantly adjust that ring while you tracked the target. the gunsite sort of looked like a cantilevered supported camera box with two handles/knobs on either side. There thumb buttons where the handles were so you could fire the guns with either hand.

The computer on the B-29 had all the info on the B-29s Flight Vector automatically sent to it, so the gunner was really feeding tracking and distance info of the enemy aircraft to the computer. Whereupon, the computer would automatically compute the lead trajectory required to hit the target. It was, quite literally, a point and shoot system.

As for who controlled the turrets, they were set up such that certain positions had priority over others. For instance, the top gunner in the back, had priorty control on the top rear turret and secondary priorty on the top nose turret. So, if he saw a target diving in high at their 3 O'Clock, he could put his pipper on the target and, if he was the only gunner `gunning' at that time both top turrets would shoot for his target. However, if the nose gunner saw someone come in at their 1 O'Clock high, he would get priorty on the top nose turret and it would automatically slew from the 3 O'Clock target to the 1 O'Clock target.

He explained who had priorty on which gun, etc. but I couldn't remember that much....he was telling all kinds of great stories I don't want to forget, so I let some of the technical details go. There was a switch though, I believe it was like `activating' the gun position. e.g., as soon as the bombadier activated his gun site, he had priorty control of the nose turrets, etc.

I am not sure if I have cleared anything up or just complicated it more, but I think what I added should clarify the turret system on the B-29.

If you guys ever go to any airshows and see the old guys standing around them or working on them, stike up a conversation with them! The guy who took our money for the tour (His patch said his name was `Jack Bradshaw') was a World War II Fighter pilot. He joined the RAF in 1940. He was transferred to the 56th FG in 44 (Two weeks before Gabby went down). I could have listened to this guy talk for hours! But the stories he told are another `story'. This one is already too long!

                 

<<Edit>> P.S. - I forgot to tell you, Biff has an article about the Dayton Airshow up at www.dogfighter.com
go check it out!


[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 08-06-2000).]

Offline Bluefish

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2000, 02:18:00 PM »
Thx for the clarification, Jigster and Sundog.  I'd been wondering about this point for a while but had never seen an explanation.  After reading this, it's no wonder they had such a hard time hitting MiG 15s in Korea; tracking would have been hard enough, much less dialing the reticle to size and waiting for a 1940's vintage computer to calculate lead.

funked

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2000, 03:52:00 PM »
You realize we already have remote-controlled turrets in AH right?

Offline juzz

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Remote Controlled Turrets: How?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2000, 02:00:00 AM »
They even use special bullets that don't damage your own plane!