Author Topic: Updated ENY values for Planes  (Read 5971 times)

Offline boomerlu

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #135 on: October 03, 2009, 05:18:56 PM »
And the fact that the 51 was fast, performed great at alt, had long range,  good roll and good guns, control at high speeds, etc.

It was a good plane. That the Luftwaffe was outnumbered , that was a product of production, it was also a product of  that whole 'getting shot down' thing.
No dispute that the P51 was a good plane, although 190s are competitive in many of these areas. 109s less so. The P51D was a good plane, but I'd hardly call it "the plane that won the war". The Brits will claim the Spit won the war... and then there's the Hurri, P47, P38, Tempest, Typhoon... it goes on and on. It's pretty fallacious to claim the P51 deserves a 5.0 ENY based on what you imagine its reputation during WWII was like.

I'd put the following factors FAR ahead of the Mustang's (or really any plane's) performance in terms of Allied air dominance over Europe especially towards the end of the war:

1) Numbers. Consider that Germany was fighting on three fronts at about half the population of the United States alone (not to mention Russia and Britain). In a war of attrition (which WWII most certainly was), you will LOSE that fight, even with superior aircraft. There's absolutely no way around this fact.
2) Average pilot combat experience - with heavy losses in experienced aircrew and no combat rotations, the average level of German pilots deteriorated greatly towards the late war. What good is an aircraft without a pilot who knows how to push it?

Consider also that Germany developed the first operational jet fighter (which was probably far more feared than the P51) and it should be pretty obvious that engineering proficiency was one thing Germany did NOT lag behind the Allies in.
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #136 on: October 03, 2009, 05:20:20 PM »
well popularity pretty much equates to overall effectivess in the MA, so theyre almost the same thing. very different from in a 1v1 duelling context which some posters seem to take as the basis for comparison.
Shouldn't K/D ratio more readily equate to overall effectiveness in the MA? Think about the reputation the P51 has in the west, especially the States... that alone should account for a large part of its popularity.
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Offline Gabriel

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #137 on: October 03, 2009, 05:25:08 PM »
..

I'm familiar with the lost-cause laundry list.

No one in this thread ever claimed the 'mustang won the war' though, so not sure whose strawman you are knocking down.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #138 on: October 03, 2009, 05:30:55 PM »
Shouldn't K/D ratio more readily equate to overall effectiveness in the MA? Think about the reputation the P51 has in the west, especially the States... that alone should account for a large part of its popularity.
No, because that can easily be distorted by a skilled or a few skilled players who have a liking for a particular airplane.  In fact, the less popular that airplane is the easier it is for a few players to boost its K/D ratio way above normal.  Look at the long P-38J thread as an example.
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #139 on: October 03, 2009, 05:38:32 PM »
I'm familiar with the lost-cause laundry list.

No one in this thread ever claimed the 'mustang won the war' though, so not sure whose strawman you are knocking down.
Ok, let me take a step back here. You said... "makes you wonder what the LW was so afraid of in the skies over 44/45?"

Well let's see... the HORDE of Allied fighters... hence the numbers comment.

Also... facing superior pilots... hence my comment on pilot experience...

Finally... any of the great number of OTHER types of Allied planes, not the least of which includes the Spit, the 38, and Tempest.

That put things in perspective? What I'm saying is, I doubt they really feared the 51D more than they feared everything else that they had against them.

In the current skies of AH, the same holds true. I'd be much more afraid of a horde of fighters than a lone P51. Much more afraid of a really good opponent. And finally I'd probably fear a Tempest or Spit more than a 51.
boomerlu
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #140 on: October 03, 2009, 05:40:22 PM »
No, because that can easily be distorted by a skilled or a few skilled players who have a liking for a particular airplane.  In fact, the less popular that airplane is the easier it is for a few players to boost its K/D ratio way above normal.  Look at the long P-38J thread as an example.
Right, but popularity can affected by sentiment, which distorts its use as a proxy for effectiveness.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #141 on: October 03, 2009, 07:10:02 PM »
Right, but popularity can affected by sentiment, which distorts its use as a proxy for effectiveness.
It can't distort it nearly so much as a few good players can distort the K/D ratio of a rarely flown aircraft.

Example, the P-40 is often seen in the US as one of the great fighters and is used in the media as a default "WWII fighter" all the time, yet its performance is so poor in AH that sentiment has done essentially nothing to make it popular.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #142 on: October 03, 2009, 08:00:55 PM »
1.) Does anyone in these 10 pages of personal bias and armchair second guessing know HTC's criterion by which the ENY changes were made?
2.) What percentage of the game's day to day average player base do the hand full of experts in this thread represent?
3.) Are there more of you experten in the game impacting the statisics you speak of,,,,,,, or more of the average player base creating the statisc trends HTC has looked at for this ENY adjustment?

4.) Mr. HiTech, I will understand if you choose not to answer. What factors prompted you this time to make adjustments to ENY?<--- thank you ahead of time if you choose to answer...  :)
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #143 on: October 03, 2009, 08:58:53 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is the suspected near future implementation of a perked loadout system alluded to with with the recent revamp of the hanger GUI. These new ENY values could be preemptive tweaking toward that end. Perhaps the perked loadout you choose also acts as a +/- modifier to the new base ENY values for each plane.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 09:04:46 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline haggerty

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #144 on: October 03, 2009, 09:00:36 PM »
I like the change to Yak9T
Why is the 37mm weak at range though?  I was pinging the crap out of bombers at 1k and had no effect (about 10 ping sprites on one bomber), but single hits from 600 out dismantled two bombers.
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #145 on: October 03, 2009, 09:37:55 PM »
I like the change to Yak9T
Why is the 37mm weak at range though?  I was pinging the crap out of bombers at 1k and had no effect (about 10 ping sprites on one bomber), but single hits from 600 out dismantled two bombers.

The Yak 37mm is probably the most effective "Tater" at range in the game.  Firing all at the same time?  You were probably seeing the 12.7 hitting.  The 37mm gives a nice puff when it hits.

Bomber kills, I believe, are as dependent on where you hit them as with what you are hitting them with.  This is especially true of a single hit to a single area.


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Offline Scotch

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #146 on: October 03, 2009, 09:40:49 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is the suspected near future implementation of a perked loadout system alluded to with with the recent revamp of the hanger GUI. These new ENY values could be preemptive tweaking toward that end. Perhaps the perked loadout you choose also acts as a +/- modifier to the new base ENY values for each plane.


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Offline BillyD

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #147 on: October 03, 2009, 09:44:57 PM »

 :aok

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Offline haggerty

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #148 on: October 03, 2009, 09:48:49 PM »
The Yak 37mm is probably the most effective "Tater" at range in the game.  Firing all at the same time?  You were probably seeing the 12.7 hitting.  The 37mm gives a nice puff when it hits.

Bomber kills, I believe, are as dependent on where you hit them as with what you are hitting them with.  This is especially true of a single hit to a single area.


wrongway

I know better than to fire the 12.7mm, I was definatly landing hits with the tater.  Almost all of my hits were on the tail section as I was directly behind the formation and was holding a 1k distance until I got low on taters and closed to 600 where the next round finished the bird I was working on, and then the next round after that blew up the 2nd bomber.  That situation in particular upset me because there were 4 sets of bombers in front of me and I was expecting to take them down one at a time from range with the 37mm.  But after spending so much time trying to take down that first bomber the other 3 sets were taken down by other knights.
I missed the first couple shots because to my suprise the round was not dropping at all at 1k.  I was getting hit sprites by pointing the sight directly at the bomber.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #149 on: October 03, 2009, 09:59:13 PM »
The Yak 37mm is probably the most effective "Tater" at range in the game.  Firing all at the same time?  You were probably seeing the 12.7 hitting.  The 37mm gives a nice puff when it hits.

Don't assume he's an idiot.

I've shot the crap out of Lancasters with 37mm and watched them lose flaps.
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