Updated ENY values for Planes

[Scotch]

Haggerty, check out this thread.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258664.0.html

[boomerlu]

It can't distort it nearly so much as a few good players can distort the K/D ratio of a rarely flown aircraft.

Example, the P-40 is often seen in the US as one of the great fighters and is used in the media as a default "WWII fighter" all the time, yet its performance is so poor in AH that sentiment has done essentially nothing to make it popular.

Well argued, you've convinced me and I concede the point. Still, I just feel the last adjustment wasn't quite right - that's purely opinion though.

p.s., you mentioning the P-40 example sealed the deal on the argument, very good choice.

[Gixer]

Don't assume he's an idiot.

I've shot the crap out of Lancasters with 37mm and watched them lose flaps.

Yes Lancs are like pumping rounds into a tree. However they can be single shot kill though it's not easy to pull off consistently.  Single round right on the wing joint where it joins the fuselage from slightly above and 90 degrees. They are a guaranteed 1 shot kill. 

Speaking of the 37mm in general as a long range tater. I've always considered that completely wrong.. The advantage of the 37mm (if you get the timing right) is it's king hit advantage over any other plane with a single close range snap shot.  Taking long range snipe shots is a waste of very limited ammo.

Wait for them to come to you.


<S>...-Gixer

[JunkyII]

It's pretty close to uber junky, I used to fly it exclusively.  Let me go through the points you just made if you don't mind.

Payload: moot point since it is a pure fighter. Spit16, Spit14,La7, N1k all have poor payloads as well but it's irrelevant. (I'm assuming you meant ordnance carrying capacity)

High Alt performance: True, it isn't very good above 20k, but what percentage of your engagements occur at 20k+... Less than 1%? Again, moot point.

Guns Aren't Good Further than 400 Out: I Lol'd when I read this because the only guns that are good further than 400 out are 50 cals and hispanos.  I can't hit anything in the Ta152 or Me262 further than 300yds out but they have some of the most lethal guns in the game.  Who wants to be firing and recording kills 400+ out anyways?  99% of my kills are had within 200yds.

Not Good at Taking Damage: I always thought it was at least average at taking damage TBH but I have no evidence to back up my feeling.

Poor Handling at High Speeds: This is the only reason you listed that is a valid handicap of the aircraft.  But how much of a handicap is it really?  So you can't go nose down and chase enemies who dive to the deck, this isn't really that big of a deal. Staying high, using the absurd climb rate, and killing the slow planes climbing up to you stalling out is where the kills are.  Not chasing down P51Ds going 500+ on the deck.  The only other handicap you failed to mention was its deck speed which honestly isn't a big deal since it climbs so well.  Why try to outrun an enemy when you can just outclimb him?

As far as 1v1's go, it pretty much dominates every single LW aircraft in the game except for the uber spits.  So lets go through the checklist.  Great guns, lots of ammo, incredible climb rate, incredible turn rate, incredible stability, incredible endurance.  Would I call the Ki84 "uber"?  I just might.

F6Fs and F4Us both can handle with a KI in a slower turn fight where the KI becomes uber, but they can also carry 2 1000 bombs plus rockets. the climb rate yes is very good but there is still alot of rides which can keep up with it, 38s 109s spits n1k LA<<<<<big one yaks all of them can use the extra speed they have in a level flight to climb with a KI. Im not saying the KI isnt uber because I know it is especially when you can get it flying right but since all the rest of the 5 eny planes went up I think it should too. What do you consider as a better all around plane a KI84 or a P38J?

[grizz441]

What do you consider as a better all around plane a KI84 or a P38J?

Ki84 hands down, unless it's a mission to take to a seal clubbing, then the P38 has more kill potential.  Only thing the 38 has on the Ki84 is ammo load imo.

From all my past experience with the Ki84, I honestly think it should be Eny'd between 10-15.  Maybe 12 or so.  I don't understand how it went up from 15 to 20.  The only thing more mind boggling than that is the Mossie going from 25 to 30.

F6f might be able to beat it in rolling scissors but it is also significantly slower of an aircraft.  Not sure about the F4u/Ki matchup but I think the Ki84 could eventually gain E edges on a D and 1a models but might struggle with the u4.  F4U's are tough to beat slow against competent F4U drivers in any plane.  The other planes you mentioned that can climb with it and chase it down can't turn with it except the Spit16.  The spit16 is the ki84's only true nemesis in my opinion.  Obviously the Spit9 and Spit8s as well but I think it is faster than those two and can run if need be.

[JunkyII]

Ki84 hands down, unless it's a mission to take to a seal clubbing, then the P38 has more kill potential.  Only thing the 38 has on the Ki84 is ammo load imo.

From all my past experience with the Ki84, I honestly think it should be Eny'd between 10-15.  Maybe 12 or so.  I don't understand how it went up from 15 to 20.  The only thing more mind boggling than that is the Mossie going from 25 to 30.
F6f might be able to beat it in rolling scissors but it is also significantly slower of an aircraft.  Not sure about the F4u/Ki matchup but I think the Ki84 could eventually gain E edges on a D and 1a models but might struggle with the u4.  F4U's are tough to beat slow against competent F4U drivers in any plane.  The other planes you mentioned that can climb with it and chase it down can't turn with it except the Spit16.  The spit16 is the ki84's only true nemesis in my opinion.  Obviously the Spit9 and Spit8s as well but I think it is faster than those two and can run if need be.

I think they went up because the LA7 and the N1k went up do keep it close to what it was before the eny update. Spit 8 i think is a bit faster 9 isnt but 9 is a beast in any fight. Hogs are hard but E fighting they cant keep up

[Anaxogoras]

From all my past experience with the Ki84, I honestly think it should be Eny'd between 10-15.  Maybe 12 or so.  I don't understand how it went up from 15 to 20.  The only thing more mind boggling than that is the Mossie going from 25 to 30.

That's an easy question to answer: low popularity.

[Karnak]

From all my past experience with the Ki84, I honestly think it should be Eny'd between 10-15.  Maybe 12 or so.  I don't understand how it went up from 15 to 20.  The only thing more mind boggling than that is the Mossie going from 25 to 30.

I haz inside aksus ta HTC?!?


Nah, they may be the two aircraft I am most likely to use, but the answer is that not very many people use them compared to other fighters.

[Spikes]

Did they drop the Wirb's ENY?

[Lusche]

Did they drop the Wirb's ENY?

Yes, from 25 to 15

[Spikes]

Yes, from 25 to 15

Ah, great. Read through the first pages and nothing popped out to me about it. Much needed drop.

[Anaxogoras]

15 is low enough for the Wirbel to actually be affected when there is a large numbers imbalance.

[Spikes]

15 is low enough for the Wirbel to actually be affected when there is a large numbers imbalance.

Most definitely. If the turret wasn't porked I'd say 10 would be better but 15 is right in there right now.

[Wmaker]

Well, I'm glad that the Brewster's ENY was raised from 25 to 30. 30 definately represents the plane better.

[Boozeman]

Good point Wmaker!

Instead of nitpicking wether the P-51 or La 7 should be 5 instead of 8 and vice versa, there has been a lot of reasonable and long overdue ENY adjustments:

P39Q: 20 > 30 (20 was really optimistic)
F4F-4: 20 > 35 (was even worse than the 39Q)
190A8: 31 > 25 (was quite an ENY bargain - now reasonably rated)
C.205: 20 > 30 (again, was rated very optimistically)

Just a few examples.