F8F Bearcat

[SnakeEyes]

Go229... rich fantasy life is correct.  The Bearkitty actually was coming off the production lines and had equipped operational squadrons prior to the end of the war.

If we're going to add jets, I would recommend that Pyro and HT not make the same mistake they made in WB.  If you had jets you need to probably start with a pair, and you need to segregate them from your main arena in some fashion (have a special jet & prop arena X days a month or something).  Personally, I'd want to see all sorts of latewar prop aircraft prior to the jets (and yes, that includes LW stuff like the Ta152, as well as the F8F).

PS - RAM, in this place it's wise to know the answer to any question you ask... the F8F started coming off the production lines in Spring 1945 and two squadrons were operational aboard ships, and steaming their way toward Japan when the Japanese initiated surrender proceedings.  Unlike the Germans and Japanese, whose homelands were under attack, the US actually had its pilots undergo formal familiarization with the F8F (and P-51H for what it is worth) prior to the squads going operational.  Otherwise both the F8F and P-51H would have engaged the Japanese in combat (the P-51H had also equipped a squadron in the Pacific and had flown combat sorties, but had not encountered any opposition) by the end of the war.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 04-18-2000).]

[Gorf]

 

Well,
Just a question?  Why is it in the response after mine, and other postings of the F7F, that All other planes are mentioned and the F7F is quickly set aside.  The F7F was one HELL of a plane, it had SPEED, POWER, FIREPOWER, and manuverablitiy.  I also believe it outlived the F8F in active service. Now don't take me wrong, the F8F was a kickass airplane to fly(anybody remeber Aces over the Pacific..Expansion pack). BUT, when ya compared the 2, the only thing the F8F had on the F7F was that it could Turn faster and roll faster. Otherwise the F7F surpassed the F8F.

Just a question.  Microsoft Combat simulator has a F7F and a F8F to download and fly.  And out of aroun 6 battles with some friends.  No matter who was flying what, the F7F came out the winner 7 times out of 10.

2cents.

GORF

[SnakeEyes]

You're kidding me... right?

I would love to fly the F7F, but she is a bomber interceptor, or a ground attack fighter... she is not the WW2 version of an air superiority fighter.  The F8F would fly circles around the F7F.  The F8F would turn better, has a better roll rate, and less roll inertia (this is a biggie!), outclimbs the F7F, would outperform the F7F in the vertical, offers better SA than the F7F, and almost assuredly offers far more overall maneuverability than the F7F.

The difference in top speeds between the aircraft is about 12 IAS (tho' the Bearcat's max speed is at 19.5K, and the Tigercat's is 21K).

I would seriously question the realism of the MS flight models if the F7F is beating the F8F most of the time.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Hristo]

Galland, Rall, Barkhorn, Bär, Nowotny, Steinhoff, Krupinski, Lützow, Rudorffer...just the most famous of Luftwaffe pilots who flew the 262. All had 100+ and some 200+ victories (one of them 301 victory).

The Me 262 was reality for them.

Can you say that for Meteor or P-80 ? When were they in combat ? Who flew them ? How many victories did they achieve ?

Same with Bearcats and Tigercats. They are just what-if planes, just like P-80 (45 produced before war ended, none saw combat). 280 Meteors produced, shot only V-1s over Britain. 1500 262s (at least 300 in combat) were the reality.


[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 04-19-2000).]

[Citabria]

I want a P-38J!

hmmm

(walks away)  

[juzz]

The Meteor was in squadron service before the Me 262, and they did send them to Europe(Belgium) with 616 Sqn RAF in January 1945. By that time the Luftwaffe was virtually non-existant in that part of Europe, so they would have had little chance to see any air combat. They did have allied fighters attacking them though, thinking they were Me 262's.  

The Me 262 and Meteor should be brought in together, if ever. And if the Me 262 engine "quirks" were modelled and it needed a long runway then it wouldn't dominate at all I think.

[Hristo]

262 wouldn't dominate arena as many think. Icons are the first to blame. The other reasons are fuel multiplier and MK 108s (poor choice for fighter work). Drop tanks are necessary if one wants to grab enough alt before engaging.

However, it would be most survivable plane if flown carefully, able to dive away from anything. It would also catch diving and fleeing P51s, Hogs and Typhoons.

It would be dangerous buff hunter (even better with R4Ms or even BK 5), but only an opportunist in anti fighter role. Any pilot with moderate SA would dodge 262 passes easily. However, it might be fun to dive through furballs - any ping you land will be fatal  

Caught low and slow, it would probably die easier than a C-47    



[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 04-19-2000).]

[snag]

F8F bearcat has my personal vote ; it's a little marvel of a plane.

snag
213 Squadron RAF 'Ceylon'

PS. WRT 262 I'm interested in those two figures :
1. how many german aces were killed by the 262 program
2. what was the lifetime of the 262 engine

[Vermillion]

Personally, I would rather not have any of the jets, except maybe for special events, and then very rarely. But if we did, Hristo is correct, the Me262 would be the leader of the pack.

The Bearcat is not the uber plane many think it would be. Good but not Uber.

• Max Speed 428 at 18,800ft
• Initial Climb at 3,230 ft/min
• Range 1,105 mls
• Empty Weight 7,323lbs Loaded Weight 12,740lbs
• Empty Wingloading 30.01 lbs/sq ft, Loaded Wingloading 52.20lbs/sq ft.
• Armament x4 .50 cal (wingmounted)

It has excellent speed, good climb, good range. But has fairly high wingloading and is very weakly armed. And yes the late model Bearcats had x4 20mm, but it would be a real squeeze to consider the early Bearcats as a "WWII" plane, let alone the late model versions.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by snag:
1. how many german aces were killed by the 262 program
2. what was the lifetime of the 262 engine

1. The most famous German ace killed in 262 was Walter Nowotny (258 victories). There were also others, but I don't know the number.

2. Surely longer than an anverage AH sortie  


[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 04-19-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

Verm, those climb numbers look a bit off on the F8F to me.  The F8F was one of the fastest climbing prop aircraft ever built, and its acceleration was pretty hot also.

Hristo, I respect your point about the aircraft not seeing "combat" in WW2 (although I've heard that the P80 saw combat in Italy).  However, I submit that you're being far too close-minded for a flight sim that essentially allows all of us to live out the fantasy of being a fighter pilot.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Hristo]

Well, Snake Eyes, decide first : do I have a rich fantasy life (as you said before), or am I just too close-minded for a sim that offers us a fantasy of WW2 pilot (like you said in your last post) ?    

OK, I will admit it: Go 229 is fantasy. P-80 and Ubercats are slightly less. Meteor is closer to realism. Me 262 is realism.

Looking forward to meet you in Arena, o-o-o, instead just on this board.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 04-19-2000).]

[Kieren]

I've seen published climb rates for the F8F at 6,100fpm, and that was the early version.

[SnakeEyes]

Unless they model the P-51H or F8F here, I don't foresee much that would convert me over from WB at this point in time.  I flew in the Beta, but dropped out when things went pay.

Now I just lurk around here to see what's up, and hassle Funked...  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[snag]

I'm a bit disappointed, as I did not get my answers from you LW experts ... I had to  search for the answer to question 2 : average lifetime of Me262 engine is 12 hours(interestingly some engines would blow up at takeoff).

Still waiting for answer 1 ...

snag
213 Squadron RAF