F8F Bearcat

[Citabria]

i dinae wanna see no kerosene burnin monstrosity ripping up a good prop fight any time soon  

I wouldn't mind seeing a P-38J though  

mmmmhmhmhmmmm  PBJ yum



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"There are no born fighter pilots. Some are a little better than others, thats about it. But I would say time, training, training, training and more training are the key... to any success."  -Francis Gabreski

Citabria
=357th Pony Express=

[Vermillion]

Ok guys you stirred my curiousity.  From a quick check of my available resources.

Complete Book of Fighters (F8F-1): Initial Climb at 3,230 ft/min
Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft(F8F-1B): Initial Climb at 4,570 ft/min
Janes Encyclopedia of Aviation (F8F-2): SL to 10,000ft in 92 seconds (avg 6,518 ft/min).

The difference between the -1 and the -2 is about 400hp, but that still doesn't account for the difference between the two numbers.

What do you guys have in your books? I'm really curious now.

The -2 model, with 2,500hp, comes out to a powerloading of about 5 lbs/hp, and to average 6,500ft/min up to 10,000ft is amazing to me, even with that kind of power.

Could the later two figures be from tests conducted with 150 Octane fuel?

It would be my initial guess, but I could be wrong. But it looks really similar to the delta numbers I have seen for the F4U-4 with differences in 100 octane and 150 octane fuel

Any other guess's?

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[funked]

I think the 4570 is the correct figure.

[funked]

Hristo, I'm the one who said you have a rich fantasy life.  

SnakeEyes is my evil twin.  

[Kieren]

United States Naval Fighters of World War II, Michael O'Leary:
F8F-1

• ROC 6,300fpm
• speed 421
• R-2800-22W
• 9,430lbs loaded

The Illustrated History of Fighters, Bill Gunston
F8F-1

• ROC 4,570fpm
• speed 421 @ 19,700 ft
• R-2800-34W of 2,100hp
• 12,947 lbs loaded

The Encyclopedia of U.S. Military Aircraft, Martin W. Bowman
F8F

• ROC 4,570fpm
• speed 421 @ 19,700 ft
• R-2800-34W
• 12,947 lbs loaded

The "92 seconds to 10,000 ft" is a well-known record, but the fuel load is something I don't know about.

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by snag:
average lifetime of Me262 engine is 12 hours(interestingly some engines would blow up at takeoff).

12 hours is far more than an AH sortie, even with DTs  

But that's another can of worms. I never met a P 51 with malfunctioning guns or Niki losing wings in dives.

[F4UDOA]

Guy's,

That 94 second climb to 10K was in 1946 with a F8F-1 reportly with a combat load. However early F8F's were armed with only 4 50 cals until until production models incorperated 4 20mils in the F8F-1B. Empty weight in the -1 was 7170lbs and grew to 7,650 in the -2 with max loaded weight growing from 12,947 to 13,460lbs. However initial rate of climb is listed as 6,300fpm in both models. This is truely a monster of an A/C but honestly in a WW2 flight simm what role would this A/C have (Uberdweeb plane)? If you want an arena with the P-51H, F4U-5 or a Sea Fury  (<=there is an original idea) then go ahead and add the Bearcat. But not here. The wine factor would be unbearable.

Thanks
F4UDOA

[weazel]

 
 I think it`s pretty lame of some people to ask for aircraft that had little or NO impact on WW II,yet when the dedicated LW flyers ask for a plane that SAW combat in high #`s they are shot down quicker than a spitfire in the main arena.

 What are you guys so afraid of,that the Luftwaffles might have something to chase your runstangs down with? Like it or not the ME-262 saw combat and was the first competative jet aircraft to see combat. As a LW flyer I`m getting tired of uber allied planes running away when they get beaten by good ACM,I`m all for giving you guys your F8F-hell I would like to see the A-1 Skyraider too,but not if I can`t have something to combat it with.


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 JG2 "Richthofen"
Plane Nutz
=CO= I./JG2 "Richthofen"


Aces High Instructor Corps

[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 04-20-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

Stop ur whinin'... you can have the Ta152 and the Do335 fer god's sake!!

Observe the white picket fence of historical absolutists below:

Nice, safe, and fenced in.  Also boring, staid, narrowminded, done before, and exclusionary.

I think what annoys me most about this approach, however, is that they are able to fulfill their aircraft interests, but deny the same to others.  The, "I don't want it, so you shouldn't have it" approach.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=


[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 04-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 04-20-2000).]

[Hristo]

Thanks, Weazel, you said it the best.

Nothing against late war what-if planes. Both Luftwaffe and Allies had some scary stuff.

However ! 262 does not fall into same priority category as Bearcat, P-80 or even Meteor. It was actually there, while the other three weren't. Also, they don't belong in the same arena. P-80s did not fight 190A-8s. 262s fought P-51s.

[weazel]

 Who`s whining? Go back and read my post again Barney.   Heck I`ll save you the trouble.

 

I`m all for giving you guys your F8F-hell I would like to see the A-1 Skyraider too,but not if I can`t have something to combat it with.

Snakeyes belched:

 

The, "I don't want it, so you shouldn't have it" approach.

 This is exactly what your doing when you try and keep the ME-262 from being included in Aces High,not to worry though-I seem to recall Pyro saying it would be in the game at some point.  

[Vermillion]

Guys why does every thread about potential aircraft, turn into a "Luftwaffe vs. the world", or "us vs them"??    

Its really starting to become very childish.

Here we are trying to discuss an aircraft and twice now it gets sidetracked into the same old crap.

Unfortunately its just like over on AGW, where such trash talk has lead to a really bad feeling between the two groups.

Its to the point now that it doesn't seem to matter what the subject is, or the validity of the point. You guys just go back to the same old tired arguement.

Let it go for Gods sake!!!

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Jochen]

 

Let it go for Gods sake!!!

Agreed!

There is not much point to ask for Ta 152 while even Fw 190D-9 is not done. There is not much point to ask for F8F while even F6F is not done.

Me 262 was ground breaking plane for it's time and it will surely be modeled in AH. But in environment where we can't regulate it's availability introducing it would be death blow to MA. So there is no point for begging it or proving it should be modeled because it will be, later when it's right time.

I don't want exclusive uber ride for my side or for the opposing side. If I could decide what planes would be modeled next the list would look like this:

Finish off the 1944 set:

P-47D
Fw 190D-9 (variant, easy to do)
Fw 190F/G-8 (variant, easy to do)

Go to 1945 set:

Spitfire XIV (variant, easy to do)
Tempest

Go back to mid war 1942-43:

P-38F (variant, easy to do)
Fw 190A-5 (variant, easy to do)
Il-2
Mustang Mk I (variant, easy to do)

Go back to early war 1940-41:

Spitfire I (variant, easy to do)
Bf 109E-4 (variant, easy to do)
Bf 110C-4
P-39
F4F
A6M

And last, go to "fantasy" or "prize" set:

Me 262
Ta 152 (variant, easy to do)
Meteor
P-51H (variant, easy to do)
P-47M
F8F

(Sorry for exclusion of most japanese or russian equipment, I don't have enought knowledge about them. And some introduction years may be subject to controversy.)

But as you can see, uber planes come last in my list. First the rest of the late war should be finished. Then it's time to head back to mid and early war. I haven't included bombers at all, of course some of them should be modeled too, but I think they require more work they are lower on my priority list.

Of course, without RPS or separate arena(s), early and mid war planes will not be flown at all.

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jochen
Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

jochen
JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)

I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / A-5 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[SnakeEyes]

Actually, my comment is that we need to properly playbalance/segregate jets if we add them to any game.

I've accepted that these games will probably have jets.  However, I'm observant enough to see the problems that WB's jet day causes, or the unrestricted availability of ME262s in the HA.

PS - It ain't LW vs Allies here IMO... I'd love to fly the Ta152 or Do335 just as much as the F8F (well, nearly as much).  This is between those who argue for narrow historial focus, and those who want the ability expansively be able to simulate history, as well as simulating histories that nearly occurred.

PPS - My apologies if I mistook your remark, Weazel.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Kieren]

I believe more is almost always better. Where I draw the line is when you have a plane that is so overpowering it makes flying anything else useless.

I fly the lower-end planes. A lot. I don't mind at all against the current planes, and possibly even against some of the the even hotter planes that saw action.

Against jets? Unless there was a serious restriction put on their usage, you would see the current usable plane selection drop to perhaps 5 planes, and that would be too bad.