An Unemotional Discussion of ENY Changes

[AKDogg]

Use space bar if u not gonna post a picture.

Model type        ENY -116     ENY - 117   Delta
A-20G                 25             15          -10
Bf 109G-14          20             25            5
Bf 110C-4b          35             40            5
Brewster B-239    25             30            5
C.205                 20             25            5
F4F-4                 20             35            15
F4U-1D               15             10           -5
FM2                    20             25            5
Fw 190A-8           31             25           -6
Fw 190F-8           20             25            5
Hurricane Mk IIC    10             12            2
I-16                    30             35            5
Il-2                     25             20           -5
Ki-61                   25             30            5
Ki-84-Ia               15             20            5
La-5FN                20             25            5
La-7                    5              8              3
LVTA4                 40             35           -5
M-8                    40             35           -5
Mosquito Mk VI     25             30            5
N1K2                   5               8             3
P-38L                  20             15           -5
P-39D                  30             35            5
P-39Q                  20             30           10
P-40E                  30             35            5
P-47-D11             25             30            5
P-47-D25             22             25            3
P-47N                   5             10            5
P-51D                   8               5           -3
Spitfire Mk V         25             30            5
Ta 152H                5              10           5
Typhoon IB           10              8           -2
Wirbelwind            25             15          -10
Yak-9T                25             30            5
Yak-9U                20             23            3

[Lusche]

What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.

ENY is not about how common a plane was.

BTW.. This  tour with new ENY so far:
P-51D 8152 kills+deaths
TA 152H 797 kills+deaths

[Chalenge]

Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot. I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.

[Lusche]

I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.

A rough measure for the prevalence of a fighter. A very common plane like the 51 or Spit 16 will get a huge number, a rare plane like the P-40B a small one.

Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot.

And that's why you do not count kills alone to determine "usage"

[thorsim]

just a note here ...

there is no block # after the D on the p51-D in the game, however since it has the rockets so i am guessing it must be a block 25 or later variant which dates it some time late summer early fall 1944 ...

not sure how relevant that is to the ENY decisions but it does have a bearing on the historic discussion of what was flying around when and how much etc. etc., as there were none of that specific type until the last 6-8 months of the war, and even then they were mostly trickling in as replacements.

i am not sure when or if any groups fully converted or were completely re-supplied with the d-25 or later pony before the end of hostilities in the ETO ...

maybe some experts can shed some more light on this.

++S++

t

[CAP1]

What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.

i like seeing low 152's. 

[LLogann]

Not on the Bish side..........   

Yup 262s and 163s seemed to be everywhere.

[Chalenge]

The zero rail rocket launcher provisions were added to the D model in Dec 1944 in Dallas and in January 1945 in California. February 1944 would be the earliest D model with six guns. I just noticed the D model has 20 gallons less fuel reported on the AH Wiki than the B model and they should be the same.

[thorsim]

oh ok, so then the pony-d in the game is a 1945 version?  which means it post dates the 262 and dora, anybody know if that is after the 163 and ta-152? i'd have to check on those 2 ...

+S+

t

The zero rail rocket launcher provisions were added to the D model in Dec 1944 in Dallas and in January 1945 in California. February 1944 would be the earliest D model with six guns. I just noticed the D model has 20 gallons less fuel reported on the AH Wiki than the B model and they should be the same.

[Chalenge]

Its only a 1945 model if it carries rockets.

[thorsim]

Its only a 1945 model if it carries rockets.

no it is a 1945 model all the time because it can carry rockets ...

[BnZs]

Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot. I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.

I find it very little, if any, harder to get kills in than the Pony when flying both as a b'n'z fighter. The fact that it only takes *one* ping with the 30mm does alot to make up for the 152's instability as a gun platform. The fact that it has two 20mms backing you up if you miss with the tater, and the fact you have a relatively generous supply of taters, eases the gunnery difficulties.

When you get down to nitty-gritty dogfighting the 152 is more likely to bite you in the bellybutton in a stall, but is also  ultimately can do more against a wider variety of planes because it retains E so darn well.

[Chalenge]

no it is a 1945 model all the time because it can carry rockets ...

No the only difference in the two is the zero rail rocket stubs which are not present if you dont load rockets. On the real 1945 model they would not ever be removed so it is only a 1945 model if you load rockets.

I think there may have even been a four gun D model prior to January 1944

[thorsim]

i am sure that works for you but if the option was only available on the 1945 plane and it is available on the FM in game than the FM represents the 1945 version ...

it's pretty simple, really ...

no offense

+S+

t

No the only difference in the two is the zero rail rocket stubs which are not present if you dont load rockets. On the real 1945 model they would not ever be removed so it is only a 1945 model if you load rockets.

I think there may have even been a four gun D model prior to January 1944

[shiv]

one of the 262's did come down to tangle, but only after he had a corsair to back him up. someone else came in, and popped the corsair, and the 262 extended a couple sectors immediately afterward.

 it's hard for me to dodge those dam things, as i'm not used to judging such a high closure rate.

Selective memory there Cap:)   My selective memory has it like this:  

38 and a 190 had dove on a 262 and were catching him, F4U came in to clear the 262's six.  F4U started chasing the 38, 38 went up and started gaining angles on the F4U, 262 came back and turned the 38 and the F4U managed few pings on him before the 190 got on the F4U's six. F4U turned that into a rolling scissors and was trying to finish off the 190 when a 110 came in and picked him.  Then I think a spit  showed up to make it 4-1 and the 262 left.  Or something like that.

The 262 was doing its best to help out, had a couple of flaps down, but as has been pointed out, the 262 takes time to turn around, so it isn't the best in an engagement like that, regardless of its perk cost.  (I use them primarily to lawn dart into the ground myself.)

That fight was a lot of fun, I was the corsair.  I was very impressed with your E management  Still not sure how you managed to stay so fast.  <<S>>