Author Topic: Gunther Rall has passed  (Read 3308 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2009, 03:49:57 PM »
what does this have to do with Serving your Country during wartime? better yet, what does this have to even do with this thread.   :confused:

Exactly the same.... no matter how you spin it.



From a German perspective, you can argue that a LW pilot, during the war, felt very strongly about the civilian casualties caused by Allied bombing raids.


Forget the civilians killed when they started the war? Their own citizens died because of their calousness.


Ahh ok they were not pure... makes all the difference to some.



If you want to respect any germans of that era you might look to the one's who actually tried to right the wrongs of their country. I'd be on that band wagon any day.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 03:57:23 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline pipz

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2009, 04:17:30 PM »
<S>


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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2009, 04:29:58 PM »
Camus said something to the effect that if he were faced with a dilemma between defending his mother or justice, he would choose the former every time.

As for civilian deaths, it's demonstrable that Allied bombing of German civilians in March and April of 1945 was totally gratuitous, and mostly a result of running out of military targets.  Towns of only 10-15000 people became targets, and in some cases were swollen with refugees when attacked.  These bombings are not comparable to the war-ending effect of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

All crimes of history remain crimes, even when compared with others more barbarous and more inhumane.
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Offline Curlew

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2009, 04:33:29 PM »
 :salute
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2009, 04:36:11 PM »
Camus said something to the effect that if he were faced with a dilemma between defending his mother or justice, he would choose the former every time.

As for civilian deaths, it's demonstrable that Allied bombing of German civilians in March and April of 1945 was totally gratuitous, and mostly a result of running out of military targets.  Towns of only 10-15000 people became targets, and in some cases were swollen with refugees when attacked.  These bombings are not comparable to the war-ending effect of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

All crimes of history remain crimes, even when compared with others more barbarous and more inhumane.

The first civilians killed were killed by germans. Of course they treated many of their own no better.

War is hell. If you can't deal with it then don't start one.
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Offline Bosco123

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2009, 04:39:52 PM »
<S> Rall  :angel:  :salute
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2009, 04:45:47 PM »
 :salute Herr Rall.

Shuffler, either honor the man or don't, but please shut up.  You are an embarrassment to this country, the way you talk.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2009, 04:50:51 PM »
<S> Rall
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2009, 04:52:15 PM »
:salute Herr Rall.

Shuffler, either honor the man or don't, but please shut up.  You are an embarrassment to this country, the way you talk.

no.......shuf is NOT an embarrassment. he is perfectly free to express his opinion in here, or anywhere. his opinion doesn't agree with yours, that's ok. we live in a free(so far) country.

 statements like what you made above are, in fact, somewhat embarrassing though.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2009, 05:05:32 PM »
:salute Herr Rall.

Shuffler, either honor the man or don't, but please shut up.  You are an embarrassment to this country, the way you talk.

The embarrassment in this country is types who roll over and are afraid to hurt someones feelings with the truth. I love my country and my family. Any threat to either is therefore at risk.

From your past posts I put little into anything you say or do. While your free to your opinion... your opinion of me is of no consequence. Stay under your rock.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2009, 05:08:41 PM »
Goodbye Mr. Rall.  I hope you lived a good solid meangingful life.

Salute witheld out of a deep respect for all allied airmen who lost their lives in the war your country started.

I'm confident that any surviving Allied airman would salute Rall, and he them... and technically England and France started the world war. Germany only started the war with Poland.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2009, 05:29:50 PM »
I'm confident that any surviving Allied airman would salute Rall, and he them... and technically England and France started the world war. Germany only started the war with Poland.

i'm curious?
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Offline Yeager

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2009, 05:37:47 PM »
I'm confident that any surviving Allied airman would salute Rall, and he them... and technically England and France started the world war. Germany only started the war with Poland.

Germany attacked, invaded and occupied Poland on Sept 1, 1939.  France and Britain had a defensive pact with Poland and declared war on Germany on Sept 3, 1939.  Germany was aware of the pact and understood clearly that they were inviting war with Britain and France by invading Poland.  

Germany declared war against the United States on Dec 11, 1941.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 06:42:44 PM by Yeager »
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Offline BrownBaron

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2009, 05:41:41 PM »
" During peacetime, we're hung with nooses placed around our necks for the crimes and murders we commit.

During war,

the ONLY thing being placed around our neck, as the result of our sins...is the Medal Of Honor."

Killing is killing, there's no good or bad, right or wrong.
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Offline TwinEng

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Re: Gunther Rall has passed
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2009, 05:46:54 PM »
You really don't see things both ways do you when you post? Because anyone can easily turn all of that around on you, what you just said. Sad to say, but it happens in war. You're just too stupid to see both sides of a story.

:salute


You are right, I guess I don't see things both ways.   My Dad served in the US Army in WWII.  He absolutely hated the Japanese and Germans, and wanted them dead.  He never even wanted to buy any products from either country for the rest of his life, his feelings from the war were so strong.  Do you think that he would ever consider buying a Sony TV when he could instead buy a RCA?   Or buy a Toyota or Honda, when he could instead buy a Ford or Chevy?   I guess that all of the US government's Anti-Nazi and Anti-Japanese propaganda during the war affected many in my parent's generation.

War breeds very intense feelings.   And the man who raised me had low opinions of the Japanese and Germans.   He blamed them for the war, and felt that they were the bad guys, and that America stood for defending freedom and justice in the world.   My mother even felt strongly that the Japanese students that she personally knew from her high school deserved to be imprisoned in internment camps during the war.  Even long after the war, she felt no sympathy at all for them having all of their property and possessions confiscated, and spending years in detention camps.  That is the way that most people felt back then.   So as I grew up, those were the viewpoints about the war that were expressed to me.  And after all, God commands us to honor our parents.   So if you want me to condemn or criticize them in any way now that they are gone, well, I will clearly not do that.

My feelings certainly are not anywhere close to what my father's were when he was alive.  He really grumbled about me buying Japanese cars, and so many other products from Japan.   And I feel that the societies in both Germany and Japan were greatly transformed by the war.   If anything, they are now probably among the most pacifistic and moral peoples on earth.   Their cultures are now practically 180 degrees opposite from what they were like during WWII.

I can respect Rall for his incredible skills and bravery as a combat pilot.   But as far as paying homage to him or mourning his loss, I really don't feel that at all.  

For after all, he was America's enemy.


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