Gunther Rall has passed

[Shuffler]

Somehow you have grown up de-humanizing everyone that doesn't think or feel like you.  Everyone of a different nationality.  Hey, probably color too....once you start, it's a slippery slope.

When your country calls you and you are in uniform, you go.  Do you think it's any different for Germans?  Or Albanians?  Or English?  It matters not what the war is about, or whose politics are involved.  When the bell rings you go.  

So, you can either salute the man for his service and honor his death, or shut up and ignore the thread.  Your precious opinion be damned, this is the wrong place for it.  The man put his rear end out on the line not for Adolf Hitler, but for his country.  I guess you think Americans did it for Roosevelt....not the United States.  What a preciously small world you live in.  All your talk of country, and yet others fought and died for individual ideals for their countries, and Americans fought and died for America.  How pitifully small of you.

And if you want to go into causal relations on who started WW2..... simply look back to WW1.  The armistice the Allies (English) put on Germany made it virtually assured they'd go to war again.

And Skuzzy... I'm sorry.  I know you're gonna bat this one......

Your ignorance now as in the past speaks volumes.

[ChickenHawk]

Well said Blauk.

  Herr Rall

[Timofei]

Some of you make it sound like he was on par with the likes of people who ran the gas-chambers and ovens or
some other kind of war crime..

Rall was definitely a nice man, fighting for his country. And the same time a small piece of big machinery, which tried to ran these gas-chambers a little longer, murdering more people until the last moment.
After the war Rall was genuinely apologetic (i believe) of the Third Reich..
so..
 

[BigPlay]

I think the heart attack was not just 2 days earlier, but over a month earlier.

I am glad I had a chance to meet this fine gentleman a year or two ago.

 

He was reported to have looked terrible at Osh Kosh. I seen him at 3 symposiums my friend organized over the years. He was always all business and I even heard him chewing out Walter Schuck and another German pilot whom I forget for being 10 minutes late.  I believe he was in his 90's so he didn't get cheated.

[BigPlay]

But what about all of the relatives of all of the hundreds of British, Russian, and American airmen that he shot down?

Just think of all of the sweethearts and wives he must have devastated, as well as all of the fatherless children he must have created.

---

I often think about how many of my relatives that I never got to meet because of Bomber Command and the 8th AF. My parents and entire family came from Germany. My bet would be that by the end of a B-17's 25 missions the death toll from one plane was in the thousands.

[BigPlay]

I wonder if (American) people say the same of Mohammed Atta after 50 years from now.
Back in 1944 it would have been the right thing to do to strafe Rall and Hartmann in their parachutes.

many were.But only by a-holes.

[BigPlay]

Think how many would have been saved if Germany and Japan had not started a war. Every death from then on can be attributed to them. No matter axis or allied.

What do you want.... a plaque in Jarusalem?

Spelling Jerusalem correctly would be a start.

[BigPlay]

Your ignorance now as in the past speaks volumes.

that's calling the kettle black now isn't it Shuffler.

[Angus]

FYI Rall looked fine and fit only a month ago. For his age, great.
Anyway, on your evil-German quotes, Rall was quite clear on the subject. He said he felt betrayed by the system, using him and his whole generation for a hideous purpose. "Betrayed" was his exact wording. Knowing more veterans of wartime Germany, this is now more clear for me. These were guys in their uniform, and as guys, well there are many sorts of them.
Anyway.
I am saddened by the path that this thread has taken, and while indeed the LW fanboys have dubbed me as an "Allied fanboy", I must indeed ask some here to be a little more....polite.
  for you Rall.
 

[Yeager]

I often think about how many of my relatives that I never got to meet because of Bomber Command and the 8th AF.

You might consider factoring in Hitler just a bit, if you wouldn't mind.  Thanks.

[Yeager]

many were.But only by a-holes.

When you play the game AcesHigh, does it feel "real" to you? Are you in all actuallity an ACE WW2 fighter pilot?  Uber skillz?  Too many killz to count?

Just curious.

[CAP1]

FYI Rall looked fine and fit only a month ago. For his age, great.
Anyway, on your evil-German quotes, Rall was quite clear on the subject. He said he felt betrayed by the system, using him and his whole generation for a hideous purpose. "Betrayed" was his exact wording. Knowing more veterans of wartime Germany, this is now more clear for me. These were guys in their uniform, and as guys, well there are many sorts of them.
Anyway.
I am saddened by the path that this thread has taken, and while indeed the LW fanboys have dubbed me as an "Allied fanboy", I must indeed ask some here to be a little more....polite.
  for you Rall.
 

YOU mentioned earlier, that you were putting together audio from your meeting. will you be posting that sir?


and now a question for all........

take yourself back to that time period. put yourself in his shoes. can you honestly say you would have done anything differently than he did?

[SirFrancis]

after reading some posts in this thread, I am speechless....

I will not go into political discussions about who started WWII and who is/was a good or bad German.

Mr. Rall was a fighter pilot and he was very good at what he did. I do not blame him for his passion!

  RIP

Regards from Germany
SF

[Shuffler]

that's calling the kettle black now isn't it Shuffler.

You can join him.

I have no feelings for anyone who followed along with hitler.

Spin it like you want but history is history no matter how you spell it.

[Yeager]

take yourself back to that time period. put yourself in his shoes. can you honestly say you would have done anything differently than he did?

Interesting game.  When did Rall finally figure out that Hitler was a schmuck?  Was Rall still flying combat when he finally figured it out, or was it well after Germany had surrendered when it, of course, made sense to plead no contest?  Remember some German officers tried to assassinate Hitler in July, 1944.  The average officer just performing his duty must have had some inkling that Germany was headed for catastrophe.  Where was Rall when that happened?  Seriously?

Again, I do not think poorly of Rall (Im more of a Steinhoff guy), and of course, I admire his skill and accomplishments as a ace figter pilot, But I also believe he was an aggressor in a war of great human global suffering and the military machine that he was an active member of was the primary catalyst for all that suffering.   Again, no salute from me.