would really like to see f6f5 stall model altered

[Citabria]

please?

I love this plane but it dosnt give a very good illusion of flying a hellcat with its fw190 type accelerated stall problems

[flakbait]

I'd like to see the entire FM re-done. Torque from the engine is far too strong, it stalls like an Fw-190, and rarely comes off the ground at actual takeoff speeds. I compared the current FM against what Zeno's WW2 training film said about it some time ago. Loads of differences. Here's my short hand notes from that:

 

Normal takeoff

elevator 0
aileron 0
rudder 1.5º right
flaps up

tail lifts at 2000 rpm
45-50" for takeoff
60 knots liftoff

carrier takeoff

elevator 0
aileron 0
rudder 1.5º right
full flaps (no positions, Spit-type flaps)


52.5" 2700 climb
44" 2550 rpm normal

15,400 ft max power

1500 30" under 5,000 ft

stall-type:

power on, clean
62 knots

power off, clean
65 knots, nose up

Landing w/flaps, power on
53 knots

Landing w/flaps, power off
58 knots

390 knots max, 7g max

slow roll, 170 knots
loop, 190 knots
immelman, 200 knots


Landing:
Flaps down, 110 knots or lower for gear
80 knots landing speed
3 point landing will touch at 60-65 knots

Carrier landing:
75 knots, flaps down

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
 

[funkedup]

Flakbait you know that all ASIs in AH read mph not kts right?

[flakbait]

Yes Funky, I am well aware of that. The film gave speeds in knots and I was taking short hand notes as I watched it. Hence my notes also read speeds in knots.


-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
 

[BBGunn]

Yep- the Navy uses knots.  The flaps:  Good point Flakbait-the flaps were one position with a compensating device to cushion them against damage if deployed at higher speed.  Like about 170 knots was recommended max I think.

[juzz]

Hummmm, those stall speeds look just a tad low...

F4UDOA's MSWF4UDATA.pdf: Dirty, power on at 10,777lbs = 76mph(Clmax = 2.18)
USN's F6F-5.pdf: Dirty, power off at 11,397lbs = 83mph(Clmax = 1.93)

For similar conditions(weight unknown), the video is claiming 61mph/67mph? - even at the lowest possible weight of 8,978lbs, that means Clmax = 2.82/2.34!!!  

The only explaination I can think of, is that the Hellcat's ASI had a big error at low speed, so it was showing less than the "real" airspeed.

[BBGunn]

The US Navy manual reprint says that 80knots is about the lowest safe speed.

[Fishu]

Why would it be using knots when german planes doesnt even have metrics?  

[funkedup]

All ASIs in AH read mph!

In WWII, kts was only used by USN.

USAAF and RAF used mph.

The badguys used km/h.

[straffo]

Originally posted by funkedup:

The badguys used km/h.

wrong  

Or do you really think the French and russian were bad guys ?
(I know the french presence after 1940 was anecdotal but ...)

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by BBGunn:
The US Navy manual reprint says that 80knots is about the lowest safe speed.

It is not really the low speed stalls, it is the high speed critical AoA or whatever stalls.

I'm no engineer, all I have is anecdotes and game play experience.

I have read lots of stories by hellcat drivers, and none of them mention bad behavior.  Many pilots praised its stability.  It was not an unsafe plane like the P-39 which seems to have been despised by its pilots.

Right now in AH the F6 has a K/D close to a lancaster.  It has little chance against a Co-E Tony and N1K2s eat it for lunch.  I'm certain an AH Ki84 would be double superior to it at almost all alts.  

In the war, F6s did not only fight zeros and attack planes and the plane did very well.  Of course there were other factors that let the hellcat run up its victory ratio...

I remember an ancient version of DOS AW came with films from some of the AW Aces.  One of them was Pyro in a hellcat, killing everyone in sight and shutting off his engine to prevent porking every time he spun    

Please fix the hellcat or inform us why it has such a nasty accelerated stall.

[funkedup]

Good point Straffo.  

[juzz]

Shoulda added a disclaimer to that one...

I totally agree that the nasty F6F stall is off(as is the P-38 stall).

Also though, I shouldn't expect that the F6F in AH will ever have the same "reputation" as the WarBirds one had a while ago!   I suspect it didn't fare nearly as well against the more capable Japanese fighters like the Ki-84 and N1K in Real Life™ either.

[BBGunn]

First, Flakbaits numbers appear to be correct:  The 80 knot figure is  practical information for pilots. The plane has some fuel, ammo and maybe a rocket or two and is coming in for a landing say.  Technically speaking he might be able to go slower before stalling but the 80 knot figure is considered "safe" taking into consideration weight, wind etc..  Stalling characteristics: from manual reprint:"The stalling characteristics of this airplane are very satisfactory.  As the stall approaches, the right wing tends to drop slowly and a severe quivering is felt throughout this airplane."  Spins: Basically it took 5000 feet to recover from a right spin and 4500ft to recover from a left spin. After about 4 turns of spin it took 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 extra turns to recover.  The book gives a figure of 11,250 lbs for the AC.

[Citabria]

I think HTC did a nice job with softening the P-38L stall model. it is a limitation of the stall flight model of AH in general so no biggie. i think the P-38L is now quite in line and modelled quite well. don't bother arguing with me about the P-38 though this is an f6f5 topic  

I would just like very much if HT and pyro could adjust the accelerated stall/stall characteristics of the hellcat for us f6f afectionados