What the?!... a sick joke?

[Citabria]

spit aint an easy plane to survive in situations where you are outnumbered

[aircat]

 BAH!... I have flown the spit... when I do I go into instant moron mode and still retain my K/D ratio. if you check my score keep in mine 3 of the 6 deaths was boredom ack killing out side that I constant dive in to 4:1 (or better) odds (their favor) and usualy take 2 with me less then those odds I land nicely at home.

 as to the coment seeming to point thats its the LW pilots complaining I RARELY fly LW.

[wells]

hehehe,
 
Funny how one can never do these things against someone else, it always happens to them!

[Kieren]

There is nothing magical about the Spit at all. Most of the preceding points have echoed my observations pretty well- it can be outrun, outrolled, overwhelmed, bled out of E by anyone that approaches it properly.

I do fly everything, and find nothing magical about it at all.

Could it be that some planes have strengths that play to our particular styles and some don't?  

[hitech]

"Funny how one can never do these things against someone else, it always happens to them!"

Is a keeper.

BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?

HiTech

[funked]

HT I know for certain that a B-17 can't loop - I heard it right here on this BBS!    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-20-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by hitech:

BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?

HiTech

A B17 wich gunners stay in their spots and fire during,and after the loop?

Please, yes.

 

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:

In this game the B17 loops, and if a gunner is on board with the pilot , it can fire his turbolasers at the same time.

Yeah I guess that the gunners didndt mind to be upside down wile firing.  

And excuse me but I doubt a lot that B17s could loop in real life, at least not without major structural damage, you'd better be FAST when you start the loop or you wont do it. And the pull would do massive damage to its wings.

I don't see how you could get the B-17 to loop because the force needed to pull the yoke through at about 300mph is almost too much for both crew to do. But, the G-loading is relatively low with the B-17 because the speed at which it would continue through the manuver. By the time it got to the top to fall over there would be, well none.

But ya, I do agree the elevator control on the 17 is a bit much, in both the length of traverse and speed of traversal.  

I think it has alot more to do with crew exertion then with the structural integrity of the plane...by 1945 most of the bombers were safe out to at least 4G's...well within the number required for the uber manuvers in AH  

The corkscrew was a realtively high G manuver..about 3 to 3.5 depending on the strength of the crew, and outside the US 8th AF bomber doctrine was a very common defense manuver.

Anyways...

- Jig

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
To all Spit bashers:

Complete a Tour exclusively flying the Spitfre MkIX.  After you've done that and had your K/D ratio magically trippled (or even remain were it is {no cheating by changing your flying style to be an insanely conservative "I only engage if I have 5,000ft and only 1 target type", unless you already fly that way}) then I'll listen to your whines.

I'm sick of this "Spitfires couldn't do that.  Everybody knows Spitfires sucked and were just mediocre jack-of-all-trades aircraft."

Put your money where your mouth is.  I did.  I did a whole tour (Tour 6) where I flew German aircraft, mostly the G-10 (OK, I cheated a flew a couple of Tiffies), to find out for myself how bad off you guys were against the Spitfire.

You know what I found?

I found that YOU"RE ALL A BUNCH OF WHINERS.  
The Bf109G-10 was SO MUCH EASIER to get kills in and survive in that I have to regard all of your anti-Spit statements as a freaking joke.

Every so often now, I'll grab a Spit, thinking that maybe I was just getting better.  But no, I still suck, and I still get wasted by some high flying BnZ bird that I am helpless against.

Sisu
-Karnak

Tour1 : (when I had the one button joke....err...yoke, no rudder pedals and problems to take off as I was a hopeless dweeb)

Query results:


 ram has 70 kills and has been killed 75 times in the Spitfire Mk IX

(total K/D rate on ALL planes in Tour1: 0.55aprox...you get the idea)
---------------------------------
Tour2 : (still no rudder pedals,still with yoke, still a dweebish newbie)
Query results:


 ram has 65 kills and has been killed 61 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

(K/D on all planes 1.024, boosted because JG2's teamwork  , as you see is in my average, and I was only a dweeb)
---------------------------------
Tour3: (got rudder pedals in the start of it and changed definitively to german planeset with some P51 and P38 too):

Query results:


 ram has 10 kills and has been killed 14 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

 (K/D ratio in tour3:1.474, rudders made me go up a lot   )
 
I recall most of those kills happened same night in base defence. got killed 8 times in a row by the 101 ECV vulching  
---------------------------------

From there onwards:
Tour4: 2kills 0 deaths
Tour5: 1Kill  0 deaths
Tour6: 0kill 0 deaths
Tour7: 0kill 0 deaths.

Total K/D in SpitIX for RAM in all tours:
148kills/150 deaths.

Counting that I flew it when I had no damned idea on how to up from a field and did not know anything about realistic way of flying (this is my first online sim and there is nothing in box sims that is near this),no damned rudders, and a sin of joke, I think it is more than a good K/D ratio,indeed

SpitfireIX is a wonderful plane. In tour1,while I had a 0.5K/D ratio in general, in SpitIX I was near 1. And I was a hopeless dweeb.

I am sure that If I take now a spitIX on a hole tour I'll raise a K/D over 3.5, (now I am at 2.2 and I am quite happy to be true). But I wont do it. I dont like the spitfire as plane and I wont get into one to have a boring time to proof anything.

Ball's on your side, Karnak. Maybe is not the plane...  



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]

[RAM]

Ah, BTW...
Tour1:
Query results:


 ram has 105 kills and has been killed 125 times in the F4U-1C.
 
forgive me, father, I have sinned  

[715]

An analysis of the scores, limited to fighter vs fighter (no tanks, no buffs, Tour 7):

Plane      k/(k+d)
P51         53.5%
109G10      54.6%
SpitIX      48.6%
P47         54.6%
Zero        35.9%
Yak9U       46.2%
190A5       59.8%  << big guns
TyphIB      50.9%
C202        32.4%
P38L        40.5%
SpitV       33.0%
F4U1C       60.2%  << big guns
109G6       44.1%
109G2       46.4%
109F4       36.1%
F4U1D       38.9%  note wo guns not so hot
C205        48.1%
190A8       44.4%
N1K2        47.3%
La5         39.7%

So.. the Spit IX is nothing special (worse than most planes) and the Spit V stinks (it's essentially the worst plane in AH).  Note the good performance of B&Z planes with big guns.

(Sorry about the vertical format- table wouldn't fit otherwise)

715A

[RAM]

Those numbers dont tell all the story. Mines neither. THey should be better if you quit all the vulches I suffered    .

Spitfires are the planes most used in base defence (over Zeros and Nikis). They are,too,the plane of choice for the vast majority of newbies (Hey! I am newbie, wich plane do you recomend me?---->95% times the answer is "Spitfire"    ).

So they are planes that will always have a lot of deaths due to disadvantage in E and/or unexperienced pilots.

Look,too that one of the most feared planes in the current planeset, N1K2 (a plane feared by many), has a lower score, 47%. And that another very competent plane, C205, has 48%, like Spitfire.

As I say, numbers dont tell the whole story.

 

Note the good performance of B&Z planes with big guns.

It may seem a sound argument. IMO, it isnt. look the figure for the Fw190A8: 44%, and has better guns than A5. And A8 is a pure BnZ fighter with 4 big guns.


Look the P51,53%. The P47, 54%. All BnZ fighters have the lead positions except Fw190A8 and F4U1C,while planes as the N1K2, with 4 20mms, have 47%, and C205 with 2 20mm like A5, has 48%.

That is simply because BnZ is the best way to fight and survive in AH's environment. You can do wonderful E-fighting in a SpitIX, but 80% people in the MA will TnB with it. Why, I dont know, but for sure TnBing you'll end dead quite quickly.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]

[StSanta]

This is what happens when you use the Spit in a Z&B like mode

mitsu has 92 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

Alternatively

tukiyo has 110 kills and has been killed 32 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

or, in fariz mode:

fariz has 266 kills and has been killed 73 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

Fly it right, and it is very deadly. and you can survive most situations.

Not my fault many fly it as pure t&b.

I consider myself a decent 109 pilot

stsanta has 223 kills and has been killed 42 times in the Bf 109G-10.

So, in the hands of a dedicated Spit pilot, the Spit matches the G10. Easier to kill in, but also easier to get killed in.

Seems to me the balance is quite good, and personal preference/flying style is the key

------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[-tronski-]

1> firstly this is a game.. which means
  unless you invent a time machine, go back and enlist..OR buy a couple of warbirds and try to shoot holes in them you don't really know what the hell a real operational Fw, or Spit fought like. Unless you read alot..and your only taking the opinion of the author.

2> having acknowledged that this is only a    game..take a deep breath and be certain that certain things can happen that aren't IRL. This being a game..

3> Spitfires may be looked down upon for     various   reasons in many games because of the "ease" of flight, and fighting skill. But thats probably because they were universally such a good airplane. Now you may have your own fav ride..that kills plenty of spitfires..but don't forget thier are plenty
of grateful veterans who loved their spits, and the RAF didn't think they were too shabby either.

4> Consider the stats don't include a vital
  ingredient: pilot skill..Maybe consider that bloody newbie spit which set your bellybutton on fire maybe has just a better pilot..or that the reason spits don't rate so much is because newbies fly them..

5> having thought of points 1-4 and    considering I've only flown spits once or twice...I conclude..perhaps people should realise this is a only game and treat it acordingly...after all if you really need the smell of av-gas and cordite..see point 1
 

-tronski- RNZAF

[AKDejaVu]

 

episode 1: diving in my tiffie onto a M16 setting up for a high release of a 1K into his lap. at 4.0 he opens fire and Im laughing my arse off. at 2.8 I hear a ping followed shortly after by MANY pings by the point of 2.2 my plane looks like confetti at a presidential parade.

I have to wonder just what the hell this means?  4.0?  Is that the distance the icon said?  Its just that I seldomely see an icon on an M16 read above 1.5.

I have to call BS on this one.

AKDejaVu