Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!

[bozon]

That's not to take away from a very impressive k/d, but there's definitely an "*" that goes next to it considering the Hellcat had opportunities the for victories the F4U didn't get.

It does not mean that the F6F was a better plane than the F4u. It means that the F6F was the better choice for the navy as their main fighter. Grumann instead of making the best fighter possible, made the best package for the navy. While the F4U was undergoing endless improvement, modifications and deck qualifications, the F6F were being rolled out of the production line at record braking pace, taking off from their CV and turkey shooting every thing with a red sun on it.

[Saxman]

It does not mean that the F6F was a better plane than the F4u. It means that the F6F was the better choice for the navy as their main fighter. Grumann instead of making the best fighter possible, made the best package for the navy. While the F4U was undergoing endless improvement, modifications and deck qualifications, the F6F were being rolled out of the production line at record braking pace, taking off from their CV and turkey shooting every thing with a red sun on it.

Trying to figure out where it looked like I was disagreeing with you.

[Krusty]

It means that the F6F was the better choice for the navy as their main fighter.

Er.. no.

It means the F6F was in "widespread" service a year before the F4u was. Can't rack up a giant kill/death ratio if you only have 1 or 2 units flying it.

[MjTalon]

Er.. no.

It means the F6F was in "widespread" service a year before the F4u was. Can't rack up a giant kill/death ratio if you only have 1 or 2 units flying it.

Beg to differ there Krusty. 56th FG was the only unit to use the P-47 exclusively up until the end of hostilities and they were the top squadron of the ETO.

[Krusty]

Perhaps so, but in the pacific, the number of engagements the F6F had before the F4u was "widely" operational was staggering.


Compare the total P-47 ratio (not just one group) with the total... say... spitfire ratio.

I'm not saying one plane is less effective or less capable, I'm saying one had a helluva lot more time, opportunity, and enemies, to rack up a better historical kill ratio than the other.

Doesn't mean one was better than the other (which the post I quoted seeme to imply). Just saying one had a chance the other did not, and with equal time, opportunity, and exposure to the enemy, that kill ratio may have been different between the Hellcat and Corsair.

[bozon]

Trying to figure out where it looked like I was disagreeing with you.

I was just making a remark on your remark, not arguing with you.

Er.. no.

It means the F6F was in "widespread" service a year before the F4u was. Can't rack up a giant kill/death ratio if you only have 1 or 2 units flying it.

And the reasons why it was not in "widespread" service till a year later, even though development started much before the F6F, are exactly what made the F6F the better choice. When you have a plane with better performance than the opposition, getting even better performance is negligible vs. simply being there in time when needed. Availability, serviceability, costs and safety were all in favor of the F6F.  So what if F4u would beat it in a mock dogfight? considering it is the only other plane who can in the theater and they were on the same team. Over spec was F4U's greatest fault - it was better than required.

[Gabriel]

Good analysis bozon.

The fact that the F6F reached such high levels of operability , first, is even more in contrast with the F4U when you consider the prototype F6F first flew in July 1942 , while the first prototype F4U flew in May 1940.

That the Hellcat went ahead so quickly is to its credit, not fault.

[Gixer]

The Japanese respected the F6F more than the F4U because it would mix it up with them rather than just BnZing like the F4U.

Obviously they didn't have the gamey F4U model that we are stuck with then. 

Can't remember his ID now, but few years ago we had an excellent Hellcat only stick.


<S>...-Gixer

[Oldman731]

Compare the total P-47 ratio (not just one group) with the total... say... spitfire ratio.

I suspect the P47 wins that one.

- oldman

[Krusty]

I suspect the P47 wins that one.

- oldman

You may be right, at that! I was trying to come up with an example off the top of my head.

Also, limiting it to "planes in the air" (not on the ground) would cut that back significantly, too!


P.S. Bozon, most of the issues keeping F4us off of CVs were due to fear on the part of folks making the decisions, NOT a problem with the plane itself. So, given the same chance at engaging the enemy... You're saying just because it was there, the F6F was the better plane.

That's too simplistic a view.

[Saxman]

You may be right, at that! I was trying to come up with an example off the top of my head.

Also, limiting it to "planes in the air" (not on the ground) would cut that back significantly, too!


P.S. Bozon, most of the issues keeping F4us off of CVs were due to fear on the part of folks making the decisions, NOT a problem with the plane itself. So, given the same chance at engaging the enemy... You're saying just because it was there, the F6F was the better plane.

That's too simplistic a view.

Actually from some of what I've seen posted here regarding VF-17 the Rogers proved the Corsair could operate safely from the carriers, it was the logistics of supplying parts for two different fighters that became one of the main concerns.

[MjTalon]

Obviously they didn't have the gamey F4U model that we are stuck with then. 

Can't remember his ID now, but few years ago we had an excellent Hellcat only stick.


<S>...-Gixer

Greebo?

[haggerty]

Those are the type of numbers I would expect from you Kazaa after one of our engagements.  You were flying with another F6F and really suppressing all the knights at tank town.  I was able to get you to chase me alone and we fought for several minutes until I was able to damage you.  However your buddy came in to rescue you and you were able to land.
With two excellent F6 pilots working together and flying smart, I can see how a 10:1 K/D would be attainable.

Congrats, you fly it well.

[Karnak]

I remember when the A6M5b was announced and the Hellcat fans said how much they were looking forward to blowing it out of the air, how the Hellcat was going to dominate so badly and so on.  I said they were probably underestimating the A6M5b as most players wouldn't know how to, or have the patience, to fight the A6M5b correctly.

It took more than a year before the Hellcat managed a positive K/D ratio against the A6M5b in AH.  Too many people just wanted to turn fight because the "knew" the Hellcat dominated the A6M5.

[Gixer]

Greebo?

No, not Greebo....   


<S>...-Gixer