Author Topic: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!  (Read 4873 times)

Offline Bronk

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2009, 07:59:09 AM »
Drex sucks. :t
See Rule #4

Offline Sol75

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2009, 11:34:27 AM »
No, not Greebo....   :headscratch:


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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2009, 04:59:15 PM »
Obviously they didn't have the gamey F4U model that we are stuck with then.  :rolleyes:

Can't remember his ID now, but few years ago we had an excellent Hellcat only stick.


<S>...-Gixer


I would prob have to say  

Mathman, Balsy, Greebo, Slapshot, Laz, Morpheus and Widewing are your top of the teir F6f flyers here in Aces High

been so long since I have seen Drex fly and a few others that slips my memory at this time........ but each of those I listed are/were very capable of holding their own against most anyone........

edit: below is an old write up I did for the F6f sereis plane back in Air Warrior ( which was the -3 model in AW )

« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 05:10:43 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2009, 05:10:56 PM »
revised 8:47 PM 11/19/99:

                                 The
                        Grumman F6F-3 "HellCat"
                                 Of
                        Kesmai's AirwarriorIII

World War II History:
  The F6F-3, Hellcat, was a direct response to the needs the Royal Navy and
U.S. Navy needed to put forth a maximum effort to win air superiorty over
the Imperial Japanese Navy and Luftwaffe of Germany. After data recorded from
the aerial combat between Grumman's F4F Wildcat(aka Britian's Marlet-FM1 /
FM2) and the Luftwaffe's Fw's and 109's, they came to the conclusion they
were outmatched in both speed and climbing ability, so on June 30th, 1941 the
U.S.Navy signed a contract with Grumman to build the F6F-3, later to be known
as the HellCat. After aquiring a japanese zero, and restoring it to flying
capability, the Grumman"IronWorks"division had a starting point to building
the F6F. They now knew what was needed to defeat the enemy's superior fighter
. This, they were able to design a faster, more durable, fighter that could
take the Pilot to Hell and back and be able to turnaround and do it again.The
one fight that forever sealed the reputation of the Hellcat was the Battle of
the Philippine Sea, always to be remembered as "the Great Marianas Turkey
Shoot". During this remarkably one sided engagement between U.S. and Japanese
carrier forces, somewhere between 320 and 345 Japanese carrier aircraft were
shot out of the sky, mostly by Hellcats from the U.S. carriers, Lexington,
Essex, Bunker Hill, Princeton and Cowpens. The total combat loss of USN air-
craft, of all types was just 30. The Hellcat demonstrated itself to be
superior to the A6M Zero. It was completely obvious that Grumman had
fulfilled their design goals with the F6F. Having served duty on all fronts
of the war, the F6F tallied up an impressive 19 to 1 kill ratio, having downed
over 5,000 enemy planes, and also held the plane with the most Fighter Aces
of the war, with some even from the Royal Navy of the British.
At the end of World War II, Adm. Chester W. Nimitz,the Chief of Naval
Operations, ordered the formation of a flight demonstration team to keep the
public interested in Naval Aviation. The Blue Angels performed their first
flight demonstration less than a year later in June 1946 at their home base,
Naval Air Station (NAS)Jacksonville,Florida. Flying the Grumman F6F Hellcat,
they were led by Lt. Cmdr. Roy "Butch" Voris.

4,402 F6F-3's were produced, with 252 going to the British Fleet Air Arm.


Grumman F6F-3 specifications:(WorldWarII Data)

Type:           Carrier or land-based Fighter
Crew:           Pilot
Armament:       six wing mounted .50 cal machine guns(400 rounds per gun)
                (various later models were equipped with cannons,rockets,
                 cameras, and radar)

Ordanace:       2 1000lb bombs(later models)

Dimensions and Weight:
        Length:         33' 7"
        Height:         13' 1"
        Wingspan:       42' 10"
        Wing area:      334 sq. ft
        Empty Weight:   9238 lbs
        Gross Weight:   11,381 lbs
     
Propulsion :   
        No. of Engines: 1
        Powerplant:     Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10(Early Production Models)
                        Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10W/with Water injection(Later
                        Production Models)
        Horsepower:     2000 hp

Performance:   
        Range:          945 miles
        Cruise Speed:   168 mph
        Max Speed:      335 mph(sea level)/376 mph(17,300 ft)
        Stalling speed: 76 mph
        Takeoff distance: 780 ft
        time to 20,000 ft - 7 minutes
        Climb:          2980 ft/s
        Ceiling:        38,400 ft

The F6F in Airwarrior3(AWMV):
 In Airwarrior, the HellCat(F6F-3) can be summed up as a jack of all trades,
it's not great at any one thing over the AW3 planeset, but it is good at every-
thing. It can divebomb, Stallfight, E fight, and do the ocassional Boom and Zoom
tactics. The most recognizeable traits of the HellCat is it's excellent turn-
ing ability, the  DiveBrakes, its enormous ammo load, Its climbing ability,
one of the highest "hardness" ratings, and its ease of flying. Besides being
on the slow side, it also has a trait of Oil starvation while inverted or if
you accidently fly beyond its envelope and get into a spin, to save the
engine from being porked don't stay inverted for long periods of time, if you
spin , cut throttle to 0% til you have recovered, this will save the engine.
 The F6f is a wonderful plane to fly and can handle alot of horsing around,
but when you push it beyond its envelope it can and will go into abrupt spins.

AW3(AWMV) performance:
Characteristics of the F6F-3:

-Turn Rate: 36.3dps with 19% fuel at sea level.
-Max Instantaneous Turn Rate:   _dps 
-Roll Rate (150knts): 6.17 sec/roll........w/rudder  5.12 sec/roll
-Roll Rate (300knts): 5.84 sec/roll........w/rudder  5.04 sec/roll
-Durability: 4.2 units (AW Hardness Rating)
Source: AW3 Data.
(Turn Rate data provided by `Badz)

Air Speed and Rate of Climb for the F6F-3:(data provided by Yoda)

        AirSpeed (kias)    Rate of Climb (ft/min)
DECK    -   267      3250
5,000   -   260      3190
10,000  -   252      2900
15,000  -   248      3100
20,000  -   242      2850
25,000  -   225      2330
30,000  -   199      1600

Other Important F6F-3 Data:(data provided by "TC")
Minimum speed for a immelman/loop:140 kias, with flaps deployed at top
Minimum speed for a double immel:250 kias, flaps used on second immel
Minimum alt for a split-s:1,000ft(1k)

*NOTE*For the manuevers mentioned above the speeds listed for each applys
to pilots that have had some air time in the game, also each manuever can be
executed at slower speeds if you take the time to practice each one, and
learn how slow you can really go and still execute it properly.

minimum takeoff speed:76 kias        with flaps deployed:62 kias
stall speed:60 kias level-flight     with flaps deployed:54 kias
Time from takeoff to 10k:2min 57sec w/ROC:3.5
Time from takeoff to 20k:5min 52sec w/ROC:3.5

 
FlyingTips for the Hellcat(F6F-3):
 IN Airwarrior the F6F is outclassed in aspect to most of the other fighters
when speed is the issue, but its greatest assets are its turning ability and
ammo load, along with its armor.  So when flying the "CAT" its imperative
to use good SA(situational awareness). Once in a dogfight it's to the death
because you want be able to run most of the time..............

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't, sooner
or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass."
                                 Lieutenant Dave"Preacher"Pace, USN
                                 U.S.Navy Fighter Weapons School Instructor

The f6f is great up to 25k , when you merge use lead turns, get the advantage
early, he who turns first wins the edge. If the enemy has more E bleed it
from him, keep making nose to nose passes til you are co-E or he has less
stay with high and low yoyo's but always maintain enough E to go vertical.
 When slow , drop them flaps, the f6f gains its best turn rate with flaps
deployed and ias around 150 to 120 ias. they will help you turn in a smaller
 radius, therefore setting up a leadshot, by turning inside your opponent,
and remember to keep constant check on your views, always know what is around
you,so if you have to go defensive you can. The f6f has a heck of a divebrake
, use it wisely.... If you're coming in fast chop throttle hit brakes and
jerk it around, it will confuse the enemy making him to think you blew right
by, just remember, if you do this, you need to make a quick accurate shot,
for you have just broken the cardinal rule of never give up the advantage,
and blowed all the E you might have had. When in defensive, chop throttle and
 drop flaps and hold them brakes on, go nose-low into a defensive spiral dive
, most all planes will pass you on the way down, so check views and position
your self on their six, hit the gas and bring in flaps , looky there you just
got the offensive advantage back.
 Fight your fight, not your oponents, if you make him fly to you you hold the
advantage, if you fly to him, he is drawing you in to your own demise!
 I keep my alt when possible if a 51 or Niki(any Boom & Zoom planes)is diving
in on me. I go nose to nose as he passes on the way down. I level off keep my
alt, he has to blow his E to get back to me, which is where I want him, I
turn better in f6f when slow, he on the other hand doesn't. Eventually you
will have the edge on him. It's your ball game now, use the various yoyo's,
immelmans, loops to drain him, then when you get the chance nail that 6!

On a final note, most of these tips and specs were taken from FullRealism
flight, but most if not all information here works just the same for Relaxed
Realism, so study long, practice hard, and Straighten Up and Fly Right......


Johnny Spencer
Handle:TequilaChaser   Cpid: TC or 'TC'
AWMV Staff Mentoring Manager   
[AWTC]-Trainer-
WWW.AirWarrior.com  WWW.EA.com
TequilaChaser@triad.rr.com
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline maddafinga

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2009, 08:36:53 PM »
Hey, I remember reading that one back in the day.  Didn't realise it was you who had written it.  Good stuff there TC!  Thanks for the walk down memory lane. 
madda
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2009, 09:22:46 PM »
My understanding was that along with the Corsair, early development on the Hellcat began almost as soon as the Wildcat hit the carriers.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2009, 10:42:05 PM »

If that 19:1 ratio is against ALL types--fighters AND bombers--I'm willing to bet that a sizable part of the F6F's kill/loss ratio was influenced by fleet defense against the pretty hopelessly outclassed Japanese carrier-borne bombers and kamikazes towards the end of the war.

Actually, post war Navy statistics show that the bulk of F4U victories after they finally deployed to CVs were against obsolescent types used as kamikazes. By then, the F4F and F6F had obliterated most of the IJN's experienced pilots. Marine and land based Navy F4Us faced much tougher Japanese pilots in the Solomons long before the Corsair was declared operational on carriers.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Widewing

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2009, 10:47:02 PM »
My understanding was that along with the Corsair, early development on the Hellcat began almost as soon as the Wildcat hit the carriers.

The Navy asked Grumman to begin designing the Wildcat's replacement in June of 1941. A contract for a prototype was signed on June 30, 1941.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Becinhu

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2009, 11:43:14 PM »
I would prob have to say  

Mathman, Balsy, Greebo, Slapshot, Laz, Morpheus and Widewing are your top of the teir F6f flyers here in Aces High

Personally I would put geepel up there in Hellkitty ability. He flyies it almost exclusively. 
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2009, 03:09:00 PM »
Obviously they didn't have the gamey F4U model that we are stuck with then.  :rolleyes:

Can't remember his ID now, but few years ago we had an excellent Hellcat only stick.


<S>...-Gixer


That would be ... "MathMan"
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2009, 06:09:56 PM »
That would be ... "MathMan"

I haven't seen Mathman in several years... Too bad. He was a good guy, for a math teacher.....



My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline SlapShot

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2009, 12:13:58 PM »
I haven't seen Mathman in several years... Too bad. He was a good guy, for a math teacher.....



My regards,

Widewing

Yes he was ... as were most of the FDBs ... I miss SOB too, he made me laugh all the time.
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Offline Ruah

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2009, 10:09:59 PM »
The High-Low Merge is definatly great with heavy planes with lots of power and teh F6F does retain E well in the verticle like other American planes. 

Ultimately though,  the F6F was more widespread not only because it was introduced early but also because its a supped-up Wildcat and shares very similar characteristics whereas the F4U was a totally different, very sensitive plane in terms of maintenance and actual flying.  If I see more F6Fs flying, I will get into the Japanese planes more - flying Japanese planes against German planes ruins the experience somehow. . . in terms of style.


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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2009, 08:35:16 AM »
Ultimately though,  the F6F was more widespread not only because it was introduced early but also because its a supped-up Wildcat and shares very similar characteristics whereas the F4U was a totally different,

actually the F6f Hellcat series is a totally different plane built from scratch, just like the F4U......... The F6f was Grumman's answer to the IJA/IJN's A6m(2,3,5 etc ) zero..... because the F4F was underclassed compared to the Zero.......

most would classify the FM2 as the supped up version of the F4F wildcat.......
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Saxman

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Re: Forget about the Spitfire XVI, perk the Hellcat!?!
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2009, 09:01:31 AM »
actually the F6f Hellcat series is a totally different plane built from scratch, just like the F4U......... The F6f was Grumman's answer to the IJA/IJN's A6m(2,3,5 etc ) zero..... because the F4F was underclassed compared to the Zero.......


Except for the fact the F6F began development long before the US started fighting Zeros....
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.