Pyro: add armor to A8?

[StSanta]

Seems fitting to add armor to it, since it is pretty sure that the weight for it is there (outclimbed by a B17).

Might give people an incentive to take it up instead of the dweeb A5  .



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
Seems fitting to add armor to it, since it is pretty sure that the weight for it is there (outclimbed by a B17).

Might give people an incentive to take it up instead of the dweeb A5   .

And have a plane that might actually survive a 1C snap shot?! How dare you suggest such a thing!  

- Jig

[funked]

Actually no Santa, the A-8 in AH climbs just like the Focke-Wulf flight test data says it should.  It's not overweight.

[Staga]

Yes, but can it take shots like real A-8 with added armor ?

[Vermillion]

 

Yes, but can it take shots like real A-8 with added armor ?

No, but it also performs like it does not have the additional armor.

If you guys think the A8 is a pig now, start adding even more weight in and see what you think.


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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[funked]

The benefits of the A-8 over the A-5 (in AH and real life) are the extra guns and ammo, extra range (due to aux. fuel tank behind the pilot) and additional speed on the deck due to boost augmentation.

The climb difference between A-5 and A-8 should not be as big as it is, because HTC appear to have modeled the A-5 on a G-3 with no cowl guns or MG FF.

[funked]

PS Santa you ever do the math on the power to weight ratio of a Fw 190 vs. a B-17 at 25,000 feet or so?

[Fishu]

PS funked, if you didn't know, Fw190A-5 were very good climber with guns too.

(or is there any spit drivers to disagree? guess not.. they're dead)

[StSanta]

Oh.

So 1.45k/s is without the extra armour?

And they used this as an interceptor for 23k buffs?

Man, the Germans were dumber than I thought.

Yeh, I know about the power/weight bit, but outclimbed by a B17 at 12k?

Add more armour. If the climbrate drops by 50%, we lose an incredible 0.7k/s. Wow. I'd still take the A8 up, because when I do, I watch tv for the first 15 minutes of the flight or so.

And fix the A5. If it's wrong, it should be fixed.

It's the worst pig in the game, and hasn't got any real advantages to say an F4U or even the Tiffie.

And fix the A5. I already said that, but will say it again. Less A5 dweebs = more fun  .

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
Man, the Germans were dumber than I thought.

Yeh, I know about the power/weight bit, but outclimbed by a B17 at 12k?

Add more armour. If the climbrate drops by 50%, we lose an incredible 0.7k/s. Wow. I'd still take the A8 up, because when I do, I watch tv for the first 15 minutes of the flight or so.

I think I'll arm my Ju-88 A-4 with few 20mm guns and so on, because it seems to be *alot* better fighter than Fw190 A-8 fighter itself...
At least it would climb then climb faster, better service ceiling, faster, more fuel...

I don't know where some of these guys have been, but for *amn sure they've been taken out from the propaganda can or such similar place.

[funked]

Hey Fishu, Mr. Aeronautics Expert.  If you want to squeak about the plane, find some evidence that it performed better than in AH.  All I've found is the flight test data by the men who built it.  And that agrees with AH.  Otherwise shut your pie hole.

[funked]

Santa I haven't done any checks of the B-17 flight model.  I have no idea if it is correct or not.  

However if you figure the power/weight ratio for a B-17G at 25,000 feet that is running on fumes and has no bombs, it's about 6 lb/hp.  Fw 190A-8 has about 9 lb/hp at the same altitude if it is fully loaded.  The reason for this is that the 190 has an inferior single-stage blower, while the B-17 has turbosuperchargers.

The real problem is that the bombers in AH are flying at fuel loads that would be reserve fuel in WW2.  And B-17G holds a lot of fuel, so each percent of fuel is something like 150 pounds.  At worst a real 190 would be seeing B-17G's with 50% fuel, and they would be throttled way back to maintain formation.  In AH you see BUFFs running on fumes and wide open throttle because they don't have to worry about formation and they only have to fly 25 miles to get home.  And naturally they are much harder to catch.

And yes I do think the Nazis were dumb.  The people who decided what got produced and what didn't were idiots.  Fw 190A was inferior to Allied fighters on both fronts by the end of 1943, but they just kept producing them without significant improvements.  190's with inline engines and two-stage superchargers should have been built in 1942, not 1944, but they would not let Tank have the engines.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Sorrow[S=A]]

I think the A8 DOES have the armor. Remember the armor was mostly there to stop light arms fire and protect the pilot. In the A8 I have rarely seen pilot wounds and I know from the bomber side that an A8 will easily fly right up your bellybutton blazing away before the .50's punch it's motor hard enough to kill it dead! Armor was mostly a boon to the ground attack 190's though- A8 was very popular over A5 as it was faster and had less chance of small arms fire killing the pilot. Though usefull against larger calibers it's by no means a cannon resistant or .50 cal defense.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by funked:


The real problem is that the bombers in AH are flying at fuel loads that would be reserve fuel in WW2.  And B-17G holds a lot of fuel, so each percent of fuel is something like 150 pounds.  At worst a real 190 would be seeing B-17G's with 50% fuel, and they would be throttled way back to maintain formation.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-30-2000).]

1 gallon of US aviation grade gasoline is 6 pounds.

Refigure.  

F4U-1D carries around 425 gallons if I remember right, thats 2550 pounds. Figure the 17 having at least 4 times that much gas.   Thats is ALOT of fuel.

Also, the 50 gallons of oil per engine is going to make it alot lighter as it's burned off during the mission.

I did figure wing loading for the B-17 at altitude, it's lower then alot of fighters with no eggs and 25% gas. I believe 34 pounds per square foot at 25k.

- Jig

[StSanta]

funked, I know better than to argue with you about numbers  

I just find it a little amusing, almost laughable, that a standard loaded B17 can outclimb an anti buff fighter from 12k and above, assuming dt on the a8.  

"Incoming A8!"

"Ok, climbing"

"A8 is disegaging, wallowing away like a sick cow".

"Let's engage him" <B17 dives>

 

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime