Manual Trim Control

[CAP1]

Max elevator deflection is just that, MAX deflection.

All manually trimming will do is make your j/s throw shorter to hit max deflection.

So if you are pulling the j/s back an inch, or have trimmed up and are pulling you joystick back 1/2 and inch, either way you are reaching max deflection.


There are many times/reasons to trim your plane.  

High speed in a ki84.
Nose up in an F4U @ stall speed.
Dropping flaps to land to offest the nose lift.
(there is more, just a few examples)

BUT to turn tighter in a stall fight isn't one of 'em.

(EDIT: after some thought, I wanted to add that I scale my j/s so most all the sliders are all the way at the top.  There MIGHT be an argument to manually trim if you are using AH's default stick scale to help control a turn.  Granted, you should prob. scale your j/s and eliminate that need, but there is an argument there.)

not quite right.

when you trim a plane, you trim it for a speed.

 for example. take any plane of your choice up. trim everything for 150. so now you're 150 straight n level hands off.....maybe a rudder input here n there, but otherwise nothing needed.
 now throttle back a hair. the plane will descend till it re-acquires this speed. throttle up, she;ll climb till she re-acquires this speed.

 that's what changing trim does.  i've screwed with trim in turnfights a lot. it doesn;t make anythign easier on me to trim up when i'm turning tight. all that does, is make me have to re-trim the aircraft if the con decides to extend away from me.

[FLS]

Mostly?  Nothing at all inaccurate about what I posted.  Spot on actually.

RE: to your post it was not as much a direct reply to what you wrote, as much as adding to it and clarifying a known "myth" in AH.  I have run across too many pilots that think trimming helps you turn tighter which is just plane false.


I do disagree with trimming for a tighter turn as a whole.  Throttle management and position will give you a much better result than trimming ever will.

In a very limited sense, and in certain situations, what you posted is somewhat accurate; but on the whole you are not doing anybody any favors telling them to trim for a turn.  Alt, speed, vectors, etc, etc.. change so instantly in a fight that being out of trim for that NEXT move/evasive/counter will hurt you far more than that the (maybe) advantage of having your plane trimmed for a turn.

I COULD see it being helpfull when diving in for a pick at a high rate of speed because you are not sticking around and are extending/zooming away so you will have time to adjust trim on your extend/zoom.  But as I allready stated throttle management and proper position (angle/vector) would give you better results.

Again you're talking about turning tighter which is not what I posted about. If you're not responding to what I wrote then don't quote me.

Some people have posted that trimming up helps them turn. Instead of jumping on them and saying they're wrong, like somebody always will, I wondered why they felt that way. It seems to me that trimming up could only make a difference if you're scaled like the default scaling. I don't trim up for turns and I don't recommend it but I was curious what the effect was and why some people feel it helps them. You appear to think I'm talking about how to turn. Since I used the word "turn" a few times I can understand your confusion.

[morfiend]

Rokit,

 I never used the stall limiter from day 1,I turned it on to see what it would do and found it only handicaped me.Now that said,I dont have stall buzzer on or buffet sound on,I dont recall any WWII plane that had a stall horn and thats what made me turn it off.

 I rarely use manual trim,because I'm just to lazy,I do have manual trim mapped and a button to toggle CT off as I use an analog control for trim and it doesnt override CT as say pressing the "K" key would.

 While your testing stall limiter off,try turning down the stall horn and see if you can fly and not crash and burn.
Also like Lute,I have my stick scaling sliders set to 100%,except the first 2 sliders for pitch which I set to 80% and 90%.If your hamfisted at all you'll pay the price for such a setting,OTH,it will teach you to be smooth.

   

[TequilaChaser]

You will find a quite extensive article about manual & combat trim on the Aces High Trainer Corps webpage (under "learning to fly")

just a side note: The Aces High Trainer Corps Website, Lusche provided the link to, is Temporarly down..

we are aware of this, and It will be back up soon........

[WMLute]

not quite right.

when you trim a plane, you trim it for a speed.

I was discussing trimming for tighter turns which some are confused about thinking trim will make the plane exceed max deflection.  I wasn't explaining how trim works.

Again you're talking about turning tighter which is not what I posted about. If you're not responding to what I wrote then don't quote me.

Not sure why this is going back/forth as we are not really arguing but...

You posted...

So trimming up makes tight turns easier. It won't make the perfect turn any tighter, but it could help make a good turn better.

Do explain how one makes a good turn better using only trim.  I understand you weren't saying tighter.  I am curious how manually trimming a plane in AH during a dogfight will make a turn either easier or better.

Please expound.

My last reply to you explained how being trimmed for a turn can be a disadvantage in many (most) situations in a dogfight.

As Cap posted, trim might be helpfull (to some) in the one isolated turn, but if the fight changes (i.e. nme extends, fight goes nose down/up) being trimmed for that turn is a detriment.

On the whole I am of the opinion that trimming for a turn during a fight puts you at a disadvantage when the fight changes.  Granted, if you are picking or fighting a noob, the fight might very well be a single turn. Most of MY fights tend to encompass more than one turn in the same direction at a constant speed.

I guess I am looking at this from the perspective of a fight as a whole, not a single isolated turn, whereas you might just be talking about a specific turn and nothing else.

[CAP1]

I was discussing trimming for tighter turns which some are confused about thinking trim will make the plane exceed max deflection.  I wasn't explaining how trim works.

Not sure why this is going back/forth as we are not really arguing but...

You posted...
Do explain how one makes a good turn better using only trim.  I understand you weren't saying tighter.  I am curious how manually trimming a plane in AH during a dogfight will make a turn either easier or better.

Please expound.

My last reply to you explained how being trimmed for a turn can be a disadvantage in many (most) situations in a dogfight.

As Cap posted, trim might be helpfull (to some) in the one isolated turn, but if the fight changes (i.e. nme extends, fight goes nose down/up) being trimmed for that turn is a detriment.

On the whole I am of the opinion that trimming for a turn during a fight puts you at a disadvantage when the fight changes.  Granted, if you are picking or fighting a noob, the fight might very well be a single turn. Most of MY fights tend to encompass more than one turn in the same direction at a constant speed.

I guess I am looking at this from the perspective of a fight as a whole, not a single isolated turn, whereas you might just be talking about a specific turn and nothing else.

sorry dude....just went back and re-read it. i must've been stupidly tired when i read it last night.