Author Topic: La7  (Read 2787 times)

Offline MANDOBLE

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La7
« on: September 19, 2001, 07:47:00 AM »
This is not a whine, only a few question about the fighter that most impressed me in AH (even more than N1K2J).

Had the la7 the impressive acceleration actually present in AH while keeping even better handling than La5? this plane simply doesn't need to dive to outrun/outaccelerate anything at its level or slightly above him.

Was really a so hard to damage plane? In my experience, La7 needs even more lead than a F4U. Even when I damage its engine, it should take a lot of time until engine stops cause I've never seen one with engine killed.

Does it have any weak point below 20k?

Offline MadBirdCZ

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La7
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »
Hmm... I never thought that La7 is hard to damage... It is hard to catch I agree but aftrer I'm 'in range' then a 'standard' burst from my Yak-9U sends it down in flames like any other plane    :)

Edit:
And not even mentioning burst from my Tyffie  :D

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: MadBirdCZ ]

Offline Pei

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La7
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2001, 08:47:00 AM »
Certainly the La7 had very good acceleration and climb at low to mid alt and was supposed to have kept other handling qualities similar to the La5. This combination made it a favourite of many of the USSR's aces including Khozedub.

I personally don't find the La7 especially tough, though it doesn't have any glass bits like the P38's tail or the 190's engine, and my usual ride right now is the La5FN with it's twin SHvaKs.

I agree with you that the La7 is more impressive than the N1K2. All other things being equal (i.e. co-e, no big angle advantage) the only thing that worries more than the La7 is the Tempest, which of course is a whopping 70 point perk.

Offline garrido

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La7
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2001, 09:54:00 AM »
Matias, siento decirte que el La7 esta, a mi modo de ver, perfectamente modelado.
No lo encuentro mas duro que otros.
Su aceleracion es correcta, tengo una web rusa (museo ruso de nosedondecoņo que da los datos de evaluacion de guerra, si la encuentro la posteo.
Perdona que te diga, pero con G10 en 1 vs 1 por encima de 10K el La7 es pan comido, y por debajo tiene mas posiblidades el G10 que el La7 de sobrevivir, solo es cuestion de saber cuales son sus putos debile, los tiene, y muchos, eso si, el D9 esta perdido a esa cota frente al La7.

Un saludo

Supongo

Offline garrido

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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2001, 10:09:00 AM »
estoooooo....... escribo un analisis que hice precisamente de un combate La7 vs 190D9, los postee en meristasion y en el foro del JG52, en el foro de meristation (simuladores) la gente opino mucho, te puede veniir bien leerlo.Hola muchachos:

"Entiendase que esto que escribo esta basado sobre combate 1 vs 1, con el la7 detras del 190D9 a unas 1.000/1.200y y por debajo de 3.000 ft. Es una situacion que se me ha dado varias veces en el AH, en otros simm's no se como sera.

Estaba hablando con un gran piloto (virtual claro) de 190D9 y me comento que el tenia dificultades para quitarse de la cola a un La7, curiosamente a mi me pasa igual, solo que yo apenas vuelo 190 (ahora estoy en ello), pero con el G10 no tengo tanta dificultad, y eso me hizo pensar.
Analicemos, (ojo, mis conjeturas pueden ser erroneas, no tengo datos aqui).

La7: El mas rapido a baja cota, muy buena capacidad de alabeo, buena capacidad de virajes en horizontal sin perdida excesiva de E, buena aceleracion, buena velocidad ascensional hasta los 10k.

FW190 D9: Mas lento que el La7, mejor capacidad de alabeo, buenos virajes en horizontal pero pierde mas E que el La7, Peor velocidad ascensional que el La7.

BF109 G10: Mas lento que el La7, peor alabeo que La7 y mucho peor que 190 D9, capacidad de viraje en horizontal limitada, sufre de perdida de E muy rapida, Excelente aceleracion, excelente velocidad ascensional, excelente control a baja velocidad.

La velocidad superior de alabeo del D9 sobre el La7 no parece capaz de decidir el resultado del combate a favor del D9 (en mi caso al menos no).
Ese alabeo mas rapido nos permite cambiar de direccion rapidamente, abortando un posible ataque desde las 6, pero la velocidad del La7 nos pone de nuevo en el punto de mira.
Unas tijeras defensivas parecen la mejor opcion, sin embargo la superior velocidad de alabeo del 190 D9 no parece suficiente frente a la aceleracion y velocidad del La7, que puede romper el conbate, alejarse 1.000/1.5000y y volver a por nosotros con mucha velocidad, tomando de nuevo la iniciativa.
Un combate en la vertical seria aun mas peligroso, pues a esa cota el La7 retiene mejor la E, sube mejor y corre mas.
No se que se debe hacer en D9 para ganar este tipo de combate. la mejor cualidad del D9 se ve mermada por la velocidad y un casi igual alabeo por parte del la7.
Quien me puede decir como hacerlo??

Contra el La7 el G10 (en mi caso al menos) tiene muchisimas mas posibilidades de salir victorioso.
La aceleracion y climb rate parece anular y aventajar la superior maniobrabilidad y velocidad del la7.
Todo consiste en un maniobrar bien en la horizontal o en tijeras hasta que el La7 pierda esa ventaja de velocidad inicial que llevaba, nivelar, acelerar, subir poco a poco, el La7 se volvera a acercar, repetiremos lo mismo, y poco a poco iremos tomando altura, hay un momento (entre los 7 y 8 k de altura) en que podremos realizar una spiral climb, viendo como poco a poco se va quedando atras el la7. Al llegar a los 10K el motor del 109 tira como un demonio, mientra el del la7 se queda atras, solo es cuestion de picar y acabar con el.
Reconozco que cuando aparecio el La7 en la MA mi nivel de supervivencia contra este avion era nula, pero ahora, despues de descubrir no ya sus puntos negativos como los positivos del g10 ese nivel a subido a un 75 o quizas 80%.

La cuestion es: Cuales son los factores mas importantes en un avion? Alabeo, velocidad, velocidad ascensional, aceleracion, maniobrabilidad horizontal, capacidad de picado, potencia de fuego?
Ya puse en un post que si tuviese que elegir 3 opciones estas serian: aceleracion, velocidad y velocidad ascensional.
La experiencia (virtual) me a enseņado que no me he equivocado, al menos con mi forma de volar.
Que 3 opciones serian las vuestras, basandose en este tipo de situaciones??"

Saludos

Supongo

Offline MANDOBLE

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La7
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Supo, La7 vs G10:
La7 simply put the fight below 10k, G10 has no chances except to climb and forget the La. La7 outturns, outdives, outaccelerates, outclimbs, outguns and outrolls the G10 below 10k. And, in my experience, La7 is far more "strong" than any 109.

Offline garrido

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Offline garrido

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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »
Ojo matias, que yo no digo que el G10 sea superior al La7 a menos de 10k, sino que el G10 tiene mas "armas" para salir bien de un combate que el D9 contra un La7

highflyer

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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2001, 10:36:00 AM »
no habla espaniol  :(

Offline 38isPorked

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La7
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2001, 11:02:00 AM »
Tac (from a U. PC)

El LA7 no tiene tantas debilidades que puedas usar, asi que tu mejor opcion es el usar sus fortalezas en su contra.

La7 tiene una aceleracion increible, no pierde mucho E en turnos y tiene una gran ventaja en la vertical. Si lo piensas, la unica manera de joder al la7 es el meterlo en una pelea en la cual su aceleracion y poca perdida de E van a ser su perdicion.

Tijerealo. En una pelea de tijeras el la7 te va a "overshoot" con facilidad. Si el sigue derecho y no te tijerea, te da tiempo para ganar separacion e intentar otra vez. Si el se va a la vertical pa' no overshoot, clava y escapa (o gana separacion e intentalo otra vez). Si el la7 es bobo e intenta seguirte en las tijeras, has lo que puedas para coger snapshots. Muchos la7's intentan clavar y escapar cuando oyen un ping. Si no hay muchos enemigos alrededor, intenta llevar al la7 2k o menos del piso, a esa altitud el la7 sale mas perjudicado en ese tipo de peleas.

Esto funciona de maravillas en un p38, las pocas veces que he volado un 190 (d9 o a5) me sale mas dificil porque no son tan estables a bajas velocidades, pero el la7 siempre hace overshoot. el 109 es perfecto para esto, el f4 tiene gran control a baja velocidad y el g10 tiene un motor que te ayudaria a recobrar E y ganar separacion.

Offline Urchin

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La7
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2001, 11:32:00 AM »
Well, my Spanish is really rusty, so I only got about half what Supongo said.  Anyway, I fight the LA7 quite a bit, and I hop into it on occasion, here is how I'd say the LW planes stack up against it-

109s-

109F4-  You can outturn an La7 in the f4.  The La7 will outroll, outdive, outclimb, and out-accelerate you though.  Pretty much have to hope he gets real close to you and tries to turn fight you, or you are toast eventually.

109G2- In my opinion, this is the best matchup vs. the La7 of any of the 109s.  The La7 will still outroll, outclimb, and out-accelerate you, but the difference isn't as marked as it is with the f4.  The problem with flying the G2 is you are barely fast enough to get away if you run into a N1K or Spit that dives on you.  The 109G2 will climb with the La7 if it is on WEP (or if not, it can stay close enough to use guns).  The G2 can also outturn the La7.

109G6- In my opinion, this is the worst 109 overall, but I've heard it is a better matchup against the La7 than the G10 is.  The La7 will still outroll you, outclimb you, outrun, and out-accelerate you.  You'll have better luck diving with it, but it will pull away quickly as soon as you both level out.  The G6 turns about the same as the LA7.

109G10- I've found the La7 vs. 109G10 to be a fairly even fight, depending on the pilot skill of both aircraft.  A G10 flown to the edge can beat an La7 if it is not.  If the pilot of the La7 is just as skilled, or more skilled, the 109 will generally have a tough time of it.  The La7 outrolls and outruns the G10.  Turning performance is similar, with the La7 having a slight edge.  Below 10k, the planes will climb at close to the same rate.  The La7 will outdive you, and will pull away at the bottom of a dive.  That said, every time I've saddled up an la7 on the deck (in a G10), they had a damn hard time getting me off.  I can think of 2 times that I've been saddled up and not gotten the kill this tour, and only one time was due to a really nice move by the La7 (the other was due to a pony sticking his nose in).  However, if an La7 gets saddled up on YOU, I've found it is best to generally grab your ankles, bend over, and kiss your bellybutton goodbye, because you are going to have a REAL tough time getting him off.  I've found it is best to do "mini-scissors" and skids, generally the La7 will slow down to keep you in front, then you can accelerate away for a little while.  Pray that someone comes and helps remove the la7 from your butt, sometimes your prayers are answered.

190s-

190a5-  Generally a poor match for an La7, in my opinion.  The A5 is the best turning 190, but I don't believe it will turn with an LA7 for anything but the briefest of time.  The La7 will outclimb, out-accelerate, outdive, and outrun you, as well.  You can outroll the LA7, so I guess the "floppy-fish" move is a good one here?  I tend to just die.

190a8- Performs even worse than the A5 does against generally everything.  You can see above for how the La7 stacks up, the odds are just even more in the LA7s favor.

190d9-  Almost an even match for the La7.  The La7 can outturn the Dora, as well as outrun it, but the La7 only barely accelerates better and climbs a little better.  Of all the 190s, you have the best chance against an La7 in this one.  

Just as some additional notes that wouldn't really go anywhere else, I actually prefer the 109 to the 190 for fighting La7s.  The planes seem to stack up more evenly.  Also, the LA7 has no WEP above 7500 feet.  It is still a very viable fighter against the Dora up until 15k or so, but above 10k the La7 will have a very hard time dealing with a 109G10 (especially if you BnZ in the G10).  Hope this helps some.

Offline F4UDOA

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La7
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2001, 11:45:00 AM »
That is a very impressive comparison chart for the LA7 when compared to most other WW2 fighters in power to weight.

However I have never seen a comparison using Power/Wingloading. I guess this is a good measure of sustained turning ability. This statistic results very favorably against the Axis and allied A/C shown in the chart but not as well against American birds. Very interesting though. Would like to hear from someone on the validity of the power over wingloading comparison. Is that a Soviet test of determining what exactly?

Offline Apache

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La7
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2001, 11:50:00 AM »
Man Urchin, that was precise. I agree with most of what you said, from the La7 piloting point of view. It does seem to me that the G10 gives me the most difficulty of the 109's however I kill them the most. That may be due to more of them around tho.

It seems the common mistake the 109's make is continuous loops. That's easy to follow in an La7 in lag pursuit. Heck, I don't even have my finger on the trigger. I just fly behind him until he has lost all his e, then it's easy pickin's

The 190 is the most difficult it seems and that due to the roll advantage or more accurately,due to the pilot using the roll advantage correctly.

The La7 doesn't turn that well but if you use yo-yo's, high or low, whichever the situation dictates, then the turn advantage is pretty much nulified. That roll is what gets me.

<S>

Offline Buzzbait

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La7
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2001, 01:16:00 PM »
S!

I don't fly the La-7, but obviously I run into it a lot.

It seems obvious to me that the key to successfully fighting the La-7 is to stay high unless you are in a Spitfire or N1K2.

I fly the 190D9 a lot, and at altitudes over 15,000 the La-7 is definitely inferior.

It would seem to me that the same would apply for the P51D, P47's and 109's.

The only plane which is at a definite disadvanatage to the La-7 is the Typhoon.

Offline Buzzbait

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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2001, 01:17:00 PM »
S!

I don't fly the La-7, but obviously I run into it a lot.

It seems obvious to me that the key to successfully fighting the La-7 is to stay high unless you are in a Spitfire or N1K2.

I fly the 190D9 a lot, and at altitudes over 15,000 the La-7 is definitely inferior.

It would seem to me that the same would apply for the P51D, P47's and 109's.

The only plane which is at a definite disadvanatage to the La-7 is the Typhoon.