Author Topic: US aircraft; too many or too few?  (Read 823 times)

Offline flakbait

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« on: February 02, 2001, 05:37:00 AM »
There's a big complaint around here about too many US planes being present. Just through reading various sites about some specific aircraft I can tell you they're here in numbers for a reason. That reason is data. US aircraft had more testing done on them, and some are still flying today. Which means if you don't have the max roll rate of the P-47 at 311mph and 19,551 feet you can easily find out. Test one that's still flying. You can't do this to any other plane really, since the numbers are very rare or just plain don't exist. You can do some rare aircraft by spending a mongo amount of cash or time to get that data.

You can plug what you know into Pyro's little FM Builder, but that doesn't help any. Why? Hardly any info about the Ki-45 (an example, nothing more). So you stick planes in the game that you can do fairly quickly. Surprise! US aircraft have more info about them available than any other country. So we end up with a load of US planes in AH. There's the obvious foriegn AC; Bf-109s, Fw-190s, Ki-84s, Yaks, Bf-110s, Ki-43s, Spitfires, Hurricanes, Zekes, and Il-2s. They have info available about them, but what of the other aircraft you rarely see?

We each have our own baby, the plane we'd marry if given the chance. But if the guys at HTC don't have the numbers, we're kinda screwed. When Pyro puts the Me-410 in here he's gonna have to fight me for the first flight. It's big, loaded with guns, and flys like a Buick; she's damn cute too. So on with the show...

We've all listed our baby in other threads. So let's make this one count. List below your choice for a new aircraft in AH. It CAN NOT be of US manufacture or origin (no Russian built P-39s, etc...).

My pick? Me-410 with full load-out options.

Ohh, and Pyro when you put the Me-410 in here I'm gonna fight ya for her hand!  

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
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"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

 

nonoht

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2001, 05:51:00 AM »
a Me410 ?
easy meat with an AAMRAM    

but in AH, i'm sure that i'll love it

Offline RAM

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2001, 06:17:00 AM »
That is only half true.

AH has so many US planes because most players are american and their preference is to fly the US Planeset.

Simple ,and quite understandable.

Offline straffo

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2001, 07:07:00 AM »
too many (reletive to other country plane in AH)
too few (missing P61 (yes rip  ) and lot of others ...)

Offline Ghosth

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2001, 08:08:00 AM »
While I understand the reasoning, & the difficulty of getting good data. I do hope that HTC concentrates on bringing the Japanese, Italian, & russian planesets up to par soon.

If for no other reason we do not currently have the planeset for a realistic PAC sceneario, or even a Russian one.

On the other hand, the next 2 US planes I'd like to see added are the P39, & the P40.
But please, Jap bomber, dive bomber, torp bomber first!

Offline Westy

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2001, 08:14:00 AM »
Ok. I say we all petition HTC to model a Spanish made WWII fighter!

 -Westy

Offline Jochen

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »
No matter what planes HTC will give us, only late war mosters get air time because events and scenarios in general are rare and almost nobody flies mediocre planes regardless of their nationality in MA.

You can have P-39 in planeset but despite it is US plane it would not get more than few hundred kills per tour, maybe bit more if it could kill tanks. Early and mid war planes are simply ignored by most of the players.

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline J_A_B

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2001, 09:51:00 AM »
RAM--

I don't think HTC made more American planes because it has mostly American customers.  It IS possible, though.   Personally, I think they made more American planes because, unlike Britain or Germany, the USA produced in large numbers many different fighter designs--and as noted above, data is available easier.


That said, a non-US plane I would like to see is the Ki-61-II (the one that still had an inline engine, 99 completed).  That or a regular Ki-61

J_A_B

Offline M.C.202

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Westy said:

> Ok. I say we all petition HTC to model a Spanish made WWII fighter!

> -Westy

That's one way to get a FIAT CR32 :-)


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Offline Westy

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
"Fiat"?  Sure that's not "Seat"?  

-Westy

Offline Karnak

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2001, 11:21:00 AM »
Flakbait,
Heres my pick:

Il-2M3 with full loadout options.

BTW, There are also MANY British aircraft still flying, particularly various marks of Spitfire, as well as several Mosquitos and Hurricanes.  The British have quite a bit of data on theirs as well.

J_A_B,
Here's some of the few aircraft that were possible in the British and German inventories:

Spitfire MkVIII (airframe does exist in AH)
Spitfire MkXII (airframe does exist in AH)
Spitfire MkXIV (airframe does exist in AH)
Spitfire MkXVI (airframe does exist in AH)
Mosquito FB.MkVI
Mosquito B.MkIX
Mosquito NF.MkXXX
Tempest MkV (being done now)
Meteor MkIII
Firefly
Hurricane MkIIc
Wellington MkXIII

Fw190F-8 (airframe does exist in AH)
Fw190G-8 (airframe does exist in AH)
Fw190D-9
Me262A
Bf110G
Me410A
He162A
Hs129
He177
Ar234B (being done now)
Ju88C-6 (airframe does exist in AH)
Ju52

Claiming that the Germans and British just didn't have any more aircraft that were worth doing is kind of silly.  The Japanese and Russians also have many worthy aircraft, but data on them is harder to get.  The Italians still have some to offer as well.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
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[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 02-02-2001).]
Petals floating by,
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Offline flakbait

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2001, 11:42:00 AM »
Karnak your list certianly shows a load of planes that may still show up. I'm just wishing for some of the rarer aircraft that you don't see often in flight sims. The bad part is, those rare planes usually go along with a lack of info.

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Flakbait [Delta6]
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"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb

   

[This message has been edited by flakbait (edited 02-02-2001).]

Offline J_A_B

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2001, 12:23:00 PM »
Okay RAM, I'll post a list of "worthy" American aircraft (produced in large numbers).  The Germans and British have many VARIANTS "worthy" of being modeled, but relatively few actual new airframes (unles you count little-produced models or utter failures).  

In my original post, I did NOT consider variants to be a "different plane".  This time I will.  I can understand that it is a positive thing to model variants, too.

P-39D; P-39Q; P-40B; P-40E; P-40F; P-40N; P-38F; P-38G; P-38J; P-38L; P-47C; P-47D razorback; P-47D bubble;
P-51A; P-51B; P-51D; F4F-3; F4F-4; FM2; F6F; F4U-1A; F4U-1D  (note--I did not mention the 1-C); F4U-4

Those are 23 widely produced fighters which had a large impact on the war.  It does NOT include little-produced airplanes like the P-43, or American planes which fought mainly for other countries (P-63).  It doesn't include airplanes which had no real importance in the war (like the german He-163). Finally, it doesn't include nightfighters.

The fact is the USA DID produce a greater number of designs in large numbers.  However, total production of a given type tended to be lower than in Europe.

35000 Bf-109's
25000 (give or take) Spitfires

compared to:

14000 P-51's
12000 F6F's

The Japanese also preferred to make many designs.  Once AH reaches maturity, expect to see a lot of Japanese aircraft, too (except data for many Japanese planes is scarce).

I feel the best thing to do is act like the USAAF and USN are different countries. They had different tactics, different design requirements, and different purchase methods.  Japan is the only other country which had a navy that greatly increased the numbrer of airplane designs in use.  Germany did not have a naval airforce to bolster its planeset, and the British tended to modify existing fighter designs to do the job (Seafire, Sea Hurricane, etc).

Using my same criteria, here is a list of German fighters which are "worthy"

Bf-109E3; Bf-109F4; Bf-109G2, Bf-109G6, Bf-109G10; Bf-109K4; Fw-190A3; Fw-190A5; Fw-190A8; Fw-190D9, Me-110C; Me-110G; Me-410; Me-262

That is 14 planes, or just over half the total for the USA.  These fighters are the ones that dominated the German output for the war.

Notice that my list closely parallels the planeset of several other online flightsims.  Also notice how utterly predictable it is.

HTC has shown that they are willing to move away from the "major types" and model some airplanes of lesser historical signifigance through the use of the "perk planes". This move WILL result in more non-American aircraft being modeled.


Do I think the USA had a larger number of major designs?    Yes.

Do I think airplanes of lesser historical signifigance should be modeled?   Yes.

Do I understand why HTC modeled the F4U-1C so early in the game's development?     No.

Do I think the USA planeset has too many planes already?   No.

Do I think other countries need better representation?    Yes.


I am sorry that this post seems to ramble a lot and is Off Topic.  I am trying to make several points; I hope I am not just being confusing.

J_A_B

Offline Karnak

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2001, 01:00:00 PM »
J_A_B,
Whatever. You missed my point.

And I'm not RAM.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline leonid

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US aircraft; too many or too few?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2001, 01:18:00 PM »
Actually, flakbait, you're dead wrong.  I could tell ya why, but then I'd have to kill ya  
ingame: Raz