Axis/Allied Advisory Squad

[AKKuya]

What is an Axis/Allied Advisory Squad?  That's a good question with a simple answer.  This is a squad who volunteers for an entire year for one side.  These squads for each side work with the rotating CIC's each frame to ensure good planning, execution, and fairness to the participating squads.

They would be experienced squads within the FSO community to be able to coach the newer squad CO's in CIC duties.  This would be helpful in understanding the objectives given by the Frame CM's, utilizing the ride request page in Special Events for FSO's, for Fame 2 and 3 cross-referencing past rides with squads in earlier frames to be balanced as much as possible to ride requests (ex. Squad ABC has fighter for all three frames requested- Frame 1 fighter, Frame 2 attack fighter, Frame 3 the CIC would have to put them for bomber because other squads fulfilled that role for FRames 1 and 2). Plus other duties needed to help the new CIC's.

The Advisory Squads would be expected to be CIC themselves 4 times a year, roughly every 3 months.  This would be done for providing a side multiplier.  Having been using the same aircraft all year, the Advisory Squad would be able to create a batlleplan with some creative flavor.  These would be done in the same Frame against each other.  Sort of a little "Mini-Battle Rumble".  These Frames would be done as Frame 1 of an FSO and the Advisory Squads would be given the Frame Objectives during the previous FSO for at least 3 weeks preperation time.  Special Rules will apply for a Non-Normal FSO.

The Advisory Squads would also be responsible for each FSO in tracking the Frame Rides per Squads in possibly the FSO forums (After each Frame has been completed).  Also, posting the Ride Requests to help the rotating CO's in planning.

The Advisory Squad would also be consultants with the FSO CM Staff for ideas, suggestions, opinions on what's working and what's not working.  They would be in the unique position to see the ebb and flow of each individual side throughout the year.  The Advisory Squads would need to be well versed on their sides Fighters, Bombers and Ground Vehicles.

Of course anything else that would crop up during the year.  The best time for this to be implemented would be in January FSO of each year ending with the December FSO of each year.

Now after reading all this, one would ask why would any squad volunteer for some serious commitment?  Well, most of us enjoy the FSO's or we wouldn't be here.  Many squads want to see the experience of the FSO be the best as humanly possible.  Their strive for excellence compels them to help in anyway possible.  Or, it could be a personal reason known only to themselves.  The list of reasons are endless.

Maybe, the reward of doing this is simply being nice for fellow players.  Only they would know this and be an unspoken thing.  Doing the right thing and being satisfied with ones self.

As a reward from doing this from the FSO community, the Advisory Squads would after their tour of duty be released from CIC duty for the entire year afterwards to enjoy only being a partcipating squad unless they requested CIC duty for the pride and commitment of the FSO.  Possibly, the FSO community could create a "Hall of Honor" for the squads who volunteer "above and beyond the call of duty".  Many type of possibilities could be done for the duty of Advisory Squad.

Ok, time for the debate.  

[Anaxogoras]

It's an interesting idea.  Can you explain...

Having been using the same aircraft all year, the Advisory Squad would be able to create a batlleplan with some creative flavor.

For example, I don't think that flying axis or allied comes close to ensuring that you fly the same aircraft.  First, there are PTO and ETO FSOs.  Second, aircraft like the Spit Mk I and 109E are entirely different animals than the Spit VIII and 109G-6.

Is there really a good justification for the advisory squad being on the same side for a year?  I really enjoy the opportunity to fly either axis or allied in FSO, even if I get out-voted when the BoB comes up.

[Shifty]

Basically what your saying is a couple of squads get to stay locked into one side for the year and run 1/3 of the setups...
What you're describing looks more like preferential treatment for a year and then getting your name in some Hall of Honor. Doesn't sound much like an advisory squad.
Also what if this squad suffers burnout, loses the leader, or breaks up? FSOs are healthy because of the CM system we have in place and with each squad sharing it's part of the work load. Nothing personal just my two cents.
<S>

[AKKuya]

Basically what your saying is a couple of squads get to stay locked into one side for the year and run 1/3 of the setups...What you're describing looks more like preferential treatment for a year and then getting your name in some Hall of Honor. Doesn't sound much like an advisory squad.
Also what if this squad suffers burnout, loses the leader, or breaks up? FSOs are healthy because of the CM system we have in place and with each squad sharing it's part of the work load. Nothing personal just my two cents.
<S>

That wasn't the intent. Only 4 Frames out of 36 which would be 1/9 of the time.

That was just an idea, the main thing would be released from CIC duty for one year as a stated earlier.

The workload would be minimal spread out through the year.  Most squad CO's have been doing it for awhile and have a good staffs to help with.  Just the few newer squad CO's might need a helping hand.

It's an interesting idea.  Can you explain...

For example, I don't think that flying axis or allied comes close to ensuring that you fly the same aircraft.  First, there are PTO and ETO FSOs.  Second, aircraft like the Spit Mk I and 109E are entirely different animals than the Spit VIII and 109G-6.

Is there really a good justification for the advisory squad being on the same side for a year?  I really enjoy the opportunity to fly either axis or allied in FSO, even if I get out-voted when the BoB comes up.

The Advisory Squad would be well versed in all aircraft and vehicles for that side.  Yes, the different models of one aircraft vary with the capabilities.  It's helpful to be flying Me-109's or Spitfires 75% of the time in FSO's for each side.  That continual repetition creates a familarity like the back of your hand type of thing.

That would be the way for it to work.  Only squads willing to volunteer would do it.  No squad would be made to feel it's a mandatory thing.  There are a few squads in FSO that want to fly strictly Axis.  For them, it would be a natural fit.  There are a few squads who are Blue Navy and an Allied tour of duty would suit them.   



These are all good points to bring up.  This idea could be a total waste of time or could be a valuable asset to the FSO experience.  500 voices possible but only a small minority due speak out.  It's most likely that should this idea be implemented, then changes would be made for the majority to agree on as best as possible.

It's vital that more opinions be expressed so a larger view be constructed.  Consider this idea as a roughdraft in need of some polishing.  Opinions and suggestions would do that polishing.   

[M36]

Being the FSO CO of the Sick Puppies and the squad getting back into FSO's after a long hiatus, I see the the CIC job of coming up with a plan for what to do with 500+ guys for three frames as a pretty daunting task. I know the help is out there if I need it. On the surface I think I would certainly benefit from it.

Below the surface, with all the squads listed, I would hope that I could go to any CO or FSO CM staffer and get help with coming up with some worthwhile CIC orders.  I think from an advisory stand point, how many CO's beside myself would need this or want the help?

Some how in the back of my mind I see this opening a can of worms that will lead to accusations of favortism  or finger pointing at the CM Staff and the CO of the advisory squads. With these 500+ people all wanting satisfaction out of their efforts, this whole FSO thing appears to be a breeding ground for controversy, and I really think the CM staff have their work cut out for being the umpires in a giant game of baseball.  I dont know what kind of problems have arisen in the past with squads and cry's of foul, but is this another log on the fire?

Who is going to determine who is next on a voluntary basis with lets say 10 squads who would like to be the Advisory Squad? Waiting five years to be in the advisory squad is a long time to wait for someone who would really like to do this.

Sorry to rain on the parade AKKuya, Im sure this was well thought out, but those are my thoughts. Maybe there are some other pluses that I am missing.

<S> Jim (M36)

[AKKuya]

Being the FSO CO of the Sick Puppies and the squad getting back into FSO's after a long hiatus, I see the the CIC job of coming up with a plan for what to do with 500+ guys for three frames as a pretty daunting task. I know the help is out there if I need it. On the surface I think I would certainly benefit from it.

Below the surface, with all the squads listed, I would hope that I could go to any CO or FSO CM staffer and get help with coming up with some worthwhile CIC orders.  I think from an advisory stand point, how many CO's beside myself would need this or want the help?

Some how in the back of my mind I see this opening a can of worms that will lead to accusations of favortism  or finger pointing at the CM Staff and the CO of the advisory squads. With these 500+ people all wanting satisfaction out of their efforts, this whole FSO thing appears to be a breeding ground for controversy, and I really think the CM staff have their work cut out for being the umpires in a giant game of baseball.  I dont know what kind of problems have arisen in the past with squads and cry's of foul, but is this another log on the fire?

Who is going to determine who is next on a voluntary basis with lets say 10 squads who would like to be the Advisory Squad? Waiting five years to be in the advisory squad is a long time to wait for someone who would really like to do this.

Sorry to rain on the parade AKKuya, Im sure this was well thought out, but those are my thoughts. Maybe there are some other pluses that I am missing.

<S> Jim (M36)

Favortism will always be an issue no matter what safeguards are put into place. Your opinion is quite valid. 

[ghostdancer]

M36 yes you can always ask the admin CM for help and review. I have been asked by others in the past to go over their plans and offer opinions. I have also been asked for the same advice when not the admin CM. So yes, always feel free to ask advice from CMs.

[M36]

M36 yes you can always ask the admin CM for help and review. I have been asked by others in the past to go over their plans and offer opinions. I have also been asked for the same advice when not the admin CM. So yes, always feel free to ask advice from CMs.

Bad wording on my part, I already knew the CM's would help me. Daddog has made that quite clear.

<S>

[daddog]

I think in may instances this would work well, but it has an element that could spell disaster for FSO.

Many years ago when I first came up with the ‘Tour of Duty’ based on the popular S3’s in Warbirds I actually had in the design for the same squad to CiC all month. Fd-ski was the one that talked me out of it. His experience in the S3’s pointed out that it is just too much work for one or two individuals for a whole month. What worked best was for all squads to share the duty across the board. I did not really like the idea but I gave in on that point and we went with all squads sharing the CiC duty. As it turned out Fd-ski was right and it of course turned out that was the best way to run FSO.

If we lock in a few squads that rotate much of the CiC duties and then due to unforeseen circumstances some of those squads leave FSO or are unable to do their CiC duties the CM’s would be scrambling to find and train replacements. If squads know from the get go that sooner or later they will be assigned CiC duty then they will pay closer attention to objectives, CiC orders, FSO threads debating this or that issue, and come their first turn they will be better prepared for that inevitable responsibility that all squads in FSO have. Any squads that don’t fulfill their CiC duties, we remove them from FSO and easily find a replacement. I am sure you all remember the first time you had to CiC. As much pressure you felt and as nervous as you were, your probably a much better C.O. or X.O. due to that experience. You certainly have a better understanding of how FSO works and what is required to have a successful frame week after week, year after year.

In the long run, IMHO FSO will always be healthier with all squads sharing the CiC duty.

[AKKuya]

I think in may instances this would work well, but it has an element that could spell disaster for FSO.

Many years ago when I first came up with the ‘Tour of Duty’ based on the popular S3’s in Warbirds I actually had in the design for the same squad to CiC all month. Fd-ski was the one that talked me out of it. His experience in the S3’s pointed out that it is just too much work for one or two individuals for a whole month. What worked best was for all squads to share the duty across the board. I did not really like the idea but I gave in on that point and we went with all squads sharing the CiC duty. As it turned out Fd-ski was right and it of course turned out that was the best way to run FSO.

If we lock in a few squads that rotate much of the CiC duties and then due to unforeseen circumstances some of those squads leave FSO or are unable to do their CiC duties the CM’s would be scrambling to find and train replacements. If squads know from the get go that sooner or later they will be assigned CiC duty then they will pay closer attention to objectives, CiC orders, FSO threads debating this or that issue, and come their first turn they will be better prepared for that inevitable responsibility that all squads in FSO have. Any squads that don’t fulfill their CiC duties, we remove them from FSO and easily find a replacement. I am sure you all remember the first time you had to CiC. As much pressure you felt and as nervous as you were, your probably a much better C.O. or X.O. due to that experience. You certainly have a better understanding of how FSO works and what is required to have a successful frame week after week, year after year.

In the long run, IMHO FSO will always be healthier with all squads sharing the CiC duty.



That's why I posted as a proposal that would be dropped or tailored to fit someway.  Most likely this will be one of the former.  Your post summed up alot that makes sense.

You never know a year or two down the road.  The FSO community could grow another 20 squads.  Someone might remember this idea and well...

[RSLQK186]

I can think of several things that can be done to help new or distracted/overworked CiCs get the orders out without such a drastic change.

(1)Newer CiCs should not be given frame 1 duty. Think this may already be the policy. I have always found frame 2 and 3 easier. Especially back when I had no clue how the planesets fared against each other. We have more tools now, but using them may take some getting use to.

(2)There are several COs that raise there hand when the orders seem to be getting late. Some even start a set just in case. Perhaps a list of volunteers included in the objectives that are willing to work with a newer CiC? Problem would be making sure both sides have some each month. At the vary least, someone should review the entire set of orders( especially from a newer CiC) and not just the part that pertains to their squad. Not to improve on them as much as to find errors that are against the rules or objectives.

(3)Quicker confirmation that the CiCs are aware they are up to bat. A post in the FSO section of the BB seldom seems to get 6 relpies. My BB handle is different from my in game name, but it is in my AHEvents registration. Not sure if this is available to CMs. If all CiCs got a PM in the BB, they would see it when they log into the boards for any reason. Not sure if this is possible or not.

I do realize most of this does put the ball back in the CMs court. But the system of the CMs handing responsibility to the CiCs works. Just need to avoid the occasional fumble and weed out the odd illegal orders.