WWI A/C is nice... Higher Fidelity DM is nice...

[Trukk]

But configurable 8v8 (or hopefully 16v16) rooms is what I'm most looking forward to!  Especially if you can utilize the AI aircraft!  Opens up a whole lot of possibilities.

[Saurdaukar]

I dont disagree.

But I do have two concerns:

1.)  The performance envelope of WWI fighters, combined with AH's flight modelling will make for period engagements that look something like a pair of A6M2's going in circles indefinately.
2.)  The WWI arena, as described, will turn into a period version of furball lake.

[Vulcan]

Why don't you let HTC get it out the gate before picking it to bits?

[Spikes]

Why don't you let HTC get it out the gate before picking it to bits?

Yeah, tell me about it!

[FireDrgn]

I dont disagree.

But I do have two concerns:

1.)  The performance envelope of WWI fighters, combined with AH's flight modelling will make for period engagements that look something like a pair of A6M2's going in circles indefinately.
2.)  The WWI arena, as described, will turn into a period version of furball lake.

1.  You would have to have equal pilots to even consider this as a viable concern. This would then negate  the performance envelope and AH flight modeling reasons you have.
IN Order for you argument to be valid two A6mS would have to be going in circles .  and you just dont see that in any of the areas .Example two A6MS dont go in circles indefinitely now.

2. Your point touches on layout and metions nothing of the mental dweeb ness of the player that makes furball lake a slim pit.

[allaire]

Because it's not what they want.  I say I can't wait for it.

[Fulmar]

I dont disagree.

But I do have two concerns:

1.)  The performance envelope of WWI fighters, combined with AH's flight modelling will make for period engagements that look something like a pair of A6M2's going in circles indefinately.
2.)  The WWI arena, as described, will turn into a period version of furball lake.

I have to agree with your concerns.  The population that visits this BBS is a fraction of what the actual player base is, so you have to assume that just like the MA most people don't abide by the code of conduct of a fair fight.  Most of the people who post on this forum would prefer the non gang up on a single fighter rule, the debatable HO, cold pass etc.  However, years of flight time in the MA has taught me the majority of dog fights don't follow these rules.  It is what it is, every game suffers from players using poor game play and others that use good game play.

I think his concerns are legit.  Granted no one has flown these planes yet but we can use experience from the MA to predict what could happen.  We have slow turning planes and if you're near a field in the MA sub 3000 feet that's all you're going to find.  Poor tactics and maneuvers lead to flat turn battles.  With fields closer together, I think you're replicating the DA.  Granted the planes climb and fly slower so its good the distance is closer.

People write on the forums about great 'non-dweeb' battles that they had in the MA, which is great.  However, from my experience in the MA, those non-dweeb battles generally are far out weighed by the dweeb ones.

[Westy]

"use experience from the MA to predict what could happen."

 
 Have the WWII MA's all devolved into Zeke turn-fight fests at 3k between
bases? 

[Shuffler]

"use experience from the MA to predict what could happen."

 
 Have the WWII MA's all devolved into Zeke turn-fight fests at 3k between
bases? 

Turn fighting against a zeek can be fun.

[Saurdaukar]

1.  You would have to have equal pilots to even consider this as a viable concern. This would then negate  the performance envelope and AH flight modeling reasons you have.
IN Order for you argument to be valid two A6mS would have to be going in circles .  and you just dont see that in any of the areas .Example two A6MS dont go in circles indefinitely now.

Youre missing it.  

What generally makes endless circle-jerk engagements prohibative in the MA's?  The weight of the aircraft, the speed of the aircraft and the inability of (most) aircraft to sustain that sort of turning indefinately, as a result.

When you switch from a 2,000HP, 10,000lb airplane traveling at 375kts to a 100HP, 1,000lb aircraft, traveling at 90kts, things change dramatically.  Wing loading is significantly reduced, for one.  Secondly, biplanes and triplanes are not known for their superior roll rates.  Finally, there is a lack of significant power to weight differentials between the aircraft.

As a result, 'bank and yank' is likely going to be the best possible maneuver in all period A/C; with consideration given to the relative position of the other A/C.

Will their be other ACM options?  Of course!  But what do you think an arena full a Zeke's - each of which, lets say, turned ten times better than they do now - would turn into?  No pun, of course.

Dont misunderstand.  I wont be a frequent visitor, but I will be in the new arena from time to time and I am looking forward to that.  But lets not go reacting to a perfectly valid concern as though it was akin to burning a cross on the White House lawn.

Lighten up, Francis.

[Boxboy]

Well with no jets, no cannons, and a new damage model, I think the slow turn fite furballs will be a blast and the BnZ pick guys will find those "easy" kills alittle harder to come by. 

The facts are that most guys come to flight sims for the fight, very few (and there are some) come for non resisted milk runs.
I see the WWI arena as a great addition, and I am in no way worried that it will supplant the WWII set, this whole idea of "if WWI wasn't being done would give me the aircraft I want is just silly".

What you worry warts are doing is shooting the horse in the starting gate because you think he can't win the race anyway.

[Shuffler]

Well with no jets, no cannons, and a new damage model, I think the slow turn fite furballs will be a blast and the BnZ pick guys will find those "easy" kills alittle harder to come by. 

The facts are that most guys come to flight sims for the fight, very few (and there are some) come for non resisted milk runs.
I see the WWI arena as a great addition, and I am in no way worried that it will supplant the WWII set, this whole idea of "if WWI wasn't being done would give me the aircraft I want is just silly".

What you worry warts are doing is shooting the horse in the starting gate because you think he can't win the race anyway.

You mean the aircraft that the scenarios and FSO needs.

[BnZs]

The turning, climbing, and speed differences between some WWII craft are quite significant.

And I don't know, I've dueled everything in the plane set, IMO duels between matched planes are more and more drawn out by poor turning performance, not shortened. I.E, ever try "duelling" a pair of 190 D9s?

Youre missing it.  

What generally makes endless circle-jerk engagements prohibative in the MA's?  The weight of the aircraft, the speed of the aircraft and the inability of (most) aircraft to sustain that sort of turning indefinately, as a result.

When you switch from a 2,000HP, 10,000lb airplane traveling at 375kts to a 100HP, 1,000lb aircraft, traveling at 90kts, things change dramatically.  Wing loading is significantly reduced, for one.  Secondly, biplanes and triplanes are not known for their superior roll rates.  Finally, there is a lack of significant power to weight differentials between the aircraft.

As a result, 'bank and yank' is likely going to be the best possible maneuver in all period A/C; with consideration given to the relative position of the other A/C.

Will their be other ACM options?  Of course!  But what do you think an arena full a Zeke's - each of which, lets say, turned ten times better than they do now - would turn into?  No pun, of course.

Dont misunderstand.  I wont be a frequent visitor, but I will be in the new arena from time to time and I am looking forward to that.  But lets not go reacting to a perfectly valid concern as though it was akin to burning a cross on the White House lawn.

Lighten up, Francis.

[Boxboy]

You mean the aircraft that the scenarios and FSO needs.

Your idea is self defeating Shuf, no developer can keep up with guys thinking up scenario's with unusual plane types in them.

[BaldEagl]

I have to largely agree with Mazz on this one.  The WWI arena as planned is going to be a single furball between bases.  The only thing I'd disagree on is the endless turn fights as there will be too many opportunistic pickers to allow that to go on for very long.

That's why I hope that at some point HT will add a couple of bombers and maybe even a few WWI GV's to add a strategic element to the arena.  That will loosen the arena up to allow for more one on one/one on two types of engagements.  I only hope they don't wait too long to do this before the arena's charachter becomes ingrained.