Author Topic: Those 30mm!  (Read 803 times)

Offline Swager

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Those 30mm!
« on: September 06, 2000, 06:33:00 AM »
Attacked a Panzer with a 109 main loadout of 30mm and gondolas with 20mm.  Many hits. No kill!  Made about 5 passes.

Landed and grabbed a F4U-C1. Second pass I got the kill.  


Rock:  Ya see that Ensign, lighting the cigarette?
Powell: Yes Rock.
Rock: Well that's where I got it, he's my son.
Powell: Really Rock, well I'd like to meet him.
Rock:  No ya wouldn't.

Offline Vermillion

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2000, 06:41:00 AM »
Bigger caliber does not necessarily mean more armor penetration.

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Offline Fishu

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2000, 08:49:00 AM »
30mm isn't likely to kill panzer.
HE ammo and low velocity.. you don't do much with 60mm mortar either against tanks.

though, those F4u Dweeb-C cannons COULD be tuned down against panzers.
It is not uncommon that Dweeb-C gets panzer kill through its front plate from low approach angle.

5 hits through side with Dweeb-C and Panzer kaputt.

Offline Ripsnort

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2000, 08:50:00 AM »
Takes about 6-8 rounds of 75mm HE to kill a panzer...

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2000, 08:59:00 AM »
But the 75mm HE is traveling at velocities and with kinetic energy that the mk108s cant even compare too. Unless they had developed a small HEAT round for it the 30mm 108 rounds would have been next to useless against armour.

funked

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2000, 09:18:00 AM »
Even the MK 103 wasn't very good against tanks.  MK 108 is like throwing hand grenades at the tank.  

Offline RAM

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2000, 11:13:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:
Even the MK 103 wasn't very good against tanks.  MK 108 is like throwing hand grenades at the tank.    

What means that it **SHOULD** do some damage...tracks, main gun, AA MG, SOMETHING...


right now to straffe a tank with a Lw plane is like throwing balls with a BB gun...


Offline Fishu

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2000, 01:38:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
right now to straffe a tank with a Lw plane is like throwing balls with a BB gun...  


...and strafing tank with Hispano series is like using 75mm PAK

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 09-06-2000).]

Offline Jigster

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2000, 05:01:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu:
30mm isn't likely to kill panzer.
HE ammo and low velocity.. you don't do much with 60mm mortar either against tanks.

though, those F4u Dweeb-C cannons COULD be tuned down against panzers.
It is not uncommon that Dweeb-C gets panzer kill through its front plate from low approach angle.

5 hits through side with Dweeb-C and Panzer kaputt.

I believe Pyro said that on aircraft guns, the full range of capabilites of the ammo types etc were simplified into one 'shell'

Where as the Hispano Mk II has the flat trajectory and KE of a normal AP round, and the explosive power of the HE round.

The MG 151 and MK 108 used almost exclusively HE rounds so they have the lower velocity, trajectory, and KE total.

The Panzer IVH's is exclusive in it actually splits the capabilities into two shells to lower the massive destructive power of combining something like AP and HE (and the rounds fire much much slower etc)

In aircraft however, hits are much more likely to land several rounds, so the 'combined' round simulates rounds of different types hitting relatively the same surface.

I am trying to find a ballistic chart of the Mk II Hispano's AP, HE, and Tracer rounds...I imagine the HE's trajectory would actually be alot like the MG 151. (long range but still a signifigant drop) Anyway I think perhaps that combination of KE from ammo types is why Panzers die so easy.

If I got it wrong Pyro, don't hesitate to shat me up  

I have an old Mk 4 casing, with a Mk 7 explosive head, and a Mk 26 fuse which I think is a Hispano round but don't quote me  

Offline Staga

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2000, 05:07:00 PM »
As a proud member of LuftWoffles I hate to grab a plane which is made in U.S of A, historically used in pacific, to kill a tank which is made in Germany...

 

Offline Karnak

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2000, 05:17:00 PM »
Staga,
Then grab something that was made in the U.K. and WAS used to kill tanks that were made in Germany.  

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Offline Fishu

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2000, 06:18:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jigster:
I believe Pyro said that on aircraft guns, the full range of capabilites of the ammo types etc were simplified into one 'shell'

Where as the Hispano Mk II has the flat trajectory and KE of a normal AP round, and the explosive power of the HE round.

The MG 151 and MK 108 used almost exclusively HE rounds so they have the lower velocity, trajectory, and KE total.

The Panzer IVH's is exclusive in it actually splits the capabilities into two shells to lower the massive destructive power of combining something like AP and HE (and the rounds fire much much slower etc)

In aircraft however, hits are much more likely to land several rounds, so the 'combined' round simulates rounds of different types hitting relatively the same surface.

I am trying to find a ballistic chart of the Mk II Hispano's AP, HE, and Tracer rounds...I imagine the HE's trajectory would actually be alot like the MG 151. (long range but still a signifigant drop) Anyway I think perhaps that combination of KE from ammo types is why Panzers die so easy.

If I got it wrong Pyro, don't hesitate to shat me up  

I have an old Mk 4 casing, with a Mk 7 explosive head, and a Mk 26 fuse which I think is a Hispano round but don't quote me  

Pffftttt.... it is 20mm for god sake, it does not have penetration power from 500 yards to cut through front armour of PZ-IV (and believe me, I've done this few times already, it is not occasionally happening), or otherwise you could have put up .50 caliber MG in the forrest and wait for PZ-IV to drive pass and blow them up like halftracks.

-towd_

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2000, 08:20:00 AM »
better be nice when you ask that it really gets um goin .. the sillyness of the hog is most aperent when it wins a ho with a main battle tank.

Offline Jigster

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2000, 10:14:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu:
Pffftttt.... it is 20mm for god sake, it does not have penetration power from 500 yards to cut through front armour of PZ-IV (and believe me, I've done this few times already, it is not occasionally happening), or otherwise you could have put up .50 caliber MG in the forrest and wait for PZ-IV to drive pass and blow them up like halftracks.

Thats what I was trying to explain  

- Jig


Offline Pongo

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Those 30mm!
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2000, 08:47:00 AM »
The top of a panzer IV has 15mm of armour. that includes the top of the drivers and radio operators compartment. Are you sure some of that burst didnt hit there? of course your not. You know that the Hispano does not penatrate the glacis plate of a Panzer IV but I guess its fun to make silly statments. I have atacked alot of panzers with hispano and vis versa. It is not an easy kill even from the top any more. It is not super difficult but you have to put some serios rounds into a panzer to kill. Last night I had a 1c driving right down my throat at 10ft blazing away He lost that HO to a single 7.92mm.
Fishu in the MA this does not seem to be a problem. I dont know where you are flying.