Those 30mm!

[humble]

...Last night I had a 1c driving right down my throat at 10ft blazing away He lost that HO to a single 7.92mm...

This is the only thing that frosts me in MA, buff and aa (tank,M3) are just too overmodeled. Hopefully HT/Pyro will eventually tone em down a bit.

[Jerry B]

FYI, both the 20mm (but not the MG FF) and 30mm rounds the LW used weren't plain HE, but APHE (armour-piercing hi-explosive). They also had a variety of other warheads.

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:
I believe Pyro said that on aircraft guns, the full range of capabilites of the ammo types etc were simplified into one 'shell'

Where as the Hispano Mk II has the flat trajectory and KE of a normal AP round, and the explosive power of the HE round.

The MG 151 and MK 108 used almost exclusively HE rounds so they have the lower velocity, trajectory, and KE total.


In aircraft however, hits are much more likely to land several rounds, so the 'combined' round simulates rounds of different types hitting relatively the same surface.

If I got it wrong Pyro, don't hesitate to shat me up  

But if you got it right, then it is time to move on. Come on, HTC.

[funked]

I understand that it would be difficult to model different round types in a single belt of ammo.  But maybe we could model some different round types and let the user select a single type in his belt?

[Jerry B]

I think it should be an option in the loadout screen, if only for one type of ammo.

[minus]

FYI, both the 20mm (but not the MG FF) and 30mm rounds the LW used weren't plain HE, but APHE (armour-piercing hi-explosive). They also had a variety of other warheads.

 imagine the anti Lw whine !!! if the 190 get something more poverful like  yankie :-))))))))))))0

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Jerry B:
FYI, both the 20mm (but not the MG FF) and 30mm rounds the LW used weren't plain HE, but APHE (armour-piercing hi-explosive). They also had a variety of other warheads.

I'd like to see one of those MK 108 AP/HE rounds.


The 30mm is almost big enough for an APC round but would need at least double the speed to do any good.

I'm trying to find accounts of the LW using any type of AP round with regularity, and I seriously doubt there was anything like a AP/HE that was anywhere near effective. If ya find some lemme know.

- Jig

[funked]

Expecting the MK 108 to be an anti-armor round is ludicrous.  Even the MK 103, with much higher muzzle velocity and a better AP projectile, was abandoned as an anti-tank weapon.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

20mm had some jig- but not very common at all. was only a solid core bullet in the cannon too- was mostly for against bomber engienes and better penetration of planes. more common from what i read was to put AP rounds in the MG as these were available more and were more effective especially at close range due to a higher muzzle velocity.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
20mm had some jig- but not very common at all. was only a solid core bullet in the cannon too- was mostly for against bomber engienes and better penetration of planes. more common from what i read was to put AP rounds in the MG as these were available more and were more effective especially at close range due to a higher muzzle velocity.

MG 131's nearly always carried a 2/1 ratio of AP (sub core steel) and either an either ICN or HE, but againt the 131 is a lower velocity round with poor ballstics and that AP never did much (it's perfect as it's modeled in AH pretty much)

I was looking around for MG 151 AP sub core steel rounds, they were virtually none exiestant after late 1943 (prolly cause of the allied bombing campaigns   ) I've seen no accounts of AP/HE rounds anywhere for any Luftwaffe aircraft cannon...at least not in the term AP as in tank busting.

I guess you could call the normal HE rounds of the MG 151 AP/HE vs a airplane, because even at longer ranges it's prolly going to go through and then explode  

A few HE around the engine nacelle of a bomber would do alot better then a few sub core AP's...the HE will most likely rupture fuel lines ultimately ending in a fire that will destory the plane or immedately take it out of action, where as with AP engine will either lose cyclinders or be knocked out.

Not quite as effective I guess, prolly why the LW stuck with HE  

- Jig

[Jerry B]

Jig -

Believe me, the LW did use a form of APHE cannon rounds, although they didn't call them that. Various munition types were developed to be primarily used against bombers. Sometimes plain vanilla HE rounds would detonate against the skins of enemy aircaft and not do very much damage. This was mostly becuase of angles of penetration. Armour-piercing rounds which were also explosive had a much better chance of penetrating and doing damage either to the target's surface on impact or to the crew and components if it penetrated well.

[janjan]

I can't see why it would be so difficult to model a lot of different ammo types.

If any of you tried WB free host when it was active, different ammo types were modelled and selectable in different ratios. Maybe not correctly but it was there.

Also just read about Finnish Blenheimm gunners...most had their own 'recipe' of ammo. And that was for 7,9mm MG. One was like smoketracer-armorpiercing-glow-incendiary-smoketracer-etc. Would be really fun to adjust ammo for your own style of flying.

Ammo type modelling is just one of those little (or big) things that could keep AH on top.

janjan, JG53

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by janjan:
Also just read about Finnish Blenheimm gunners...most had their own 'recipe' of ammo. And that was for 7,9mm MG. One was like smoketracer-armorpiercing-glow-incendiary-smoketracer-etc. Would be really fun to adjust ammo for your own style of flying.

But only few fighters were killed by Blenheims  
I don't remember that one Blenheim gunner aces name, but he did aim along the barrel instead of gunsight  

..and ahh, would I love to choose my ammunition types, instead of having pre-set or just same ammo type.

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 09-15-2000).]