Messed up by N1H1 vaccine?

[Stalwart]

Fishu, Your response leads me to believe you have more than layman's knowledge.  Did you go to medical school?

[Angus]

DieHard, the mass vaccination of pox stopped about 1973. Hence, you can at least tell the age of people in the swimming pool by the scar on either the arse-side or the left upper arm.
I got vaccinated, my wife born in 1974 didn't. She's younger, hehe. I actually got vaccinated before she was born.
Anyway, since vaccination seems to leave so many confused minds here, this is a nice link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
You see, the more people AROUND you are vaccinated, the less likely YOU are to get infected.
And, to inform you:
"The global eradication of smallpox was certified, based on intense verification activities in countries, by a commission of eminent scientists on 9 December 1979 and subsequently endorsed by the World Health Assembly on 8 May 1980"
"The last cases of smallpox in the world occurred in an outbreak of two cases (one of which was fatal) in Birmingham, England in 1978"
So folks, if vaccine is so bad that you'd skip it and try your luck, trust in fate, or just the lord, this is pox, and NB, survivor:
(WARNING, IMAGE IS DISTURBING)










I'm happy about my vaccination which left me with a little scar....

[Viperius]

Healthy immune system > any vaccination.

But there is no profit for any pharma manufacturers when nobody gets sick anymore oops  that would mean trillions of profits lost and you wonder why there is never a real cure for anything, just things that keep you going a little longer, very expensive usually.

All I can say every year the same people I know get their seasonal flu shot and a week later they are sick with the flu for a week or more. I haven't had a shot in years and never gotten anything worse then a cold.

But go on keep throwing your money at them in the false promise that you will be cured, healed or whatever.

[CAP1]

Healthy immune system > any vaccination.



All I can say every year the same people I know get their seasonal flu shot and a week later they are sick with the flu for a week or more. I haven't had a shot in years and never gotten anything worse then a cold.

ya know? this is a large part of my reasoning for not doing any vaccinations.

[batch]

its true that the exact cause of GBS is unknown............. the exact cause of lung cancer in smokers is also unknown.......

when the CDC (not me or some other source), these are the people who are running the show on the vaccine, when they themselves openly say that 3000-6000 cases of GBS are occurring without any relation to the flu vaccine AN ADDITIONAL 3000 comes as a result of the vaccine...... this seems pretty obvious to me

absolutely you could get GBS without taking the vaccine.......... the majority of GBS victims in fact are not as a result of the vaccine.......... but CLEARLY when the CDC says 3000 people suffer GBS as a result of the vaccine which is 1/3 of total sufferers........ then that tells me theres reason for concern on my behalf

using US statistics released by the CDC (the only "reliable" source in the US by your standards)
so of the median average 12.5% who will get the flu (on average between 5% and 20% are estimated to have the flu each year of roughly 300Million people),  thats an average of 37.5Million people who get the flu each year...... gives us the following

37500000 people get the flu
200000 get sick enough to be hospitalized   thats about       .005%
36000 die as a result of flu related illnesses thats less than   .001%

so statistically speaking I would absolutely agree with you that a higher percentage will die from the flu vs develop GBS......... but statistically speaking both are very rare to begin with (.001%)....... more people will die this year from Alzheimers

which brings me back to my first statement:  people develop lung cancer who have never smoked before, yet because of the increased risk among smokers we attribute that to a leading cause.......... people also develop GBS every year without any tie to the flu vaccine, but theres a certain number (1/3) of GBS sufferers which can be tied to the flu vaccine......... is this a very small percentage of people who receive the vaccine? absolutely....... but so is the number of people who will have serious flu related illness without a vaccine

[Viperius]

Ye Cap1 but the same people keep going back each year to get their shot. Makes you wonder doesnt it.

It all comes down to profit.

Whats the worst that can happen to someone who sells vaccines and medicine? Everybody is healthy and doesnt gets sick anymore.
Whats the best that can happen to someone who sells....? A pandemic, preferably a global one 

Good thing a few months before this outbreak the WHO revised their criterias on what counts as a pandemic, they took out that a significant number of deaths have to occur for a virus to be classified as a pandemic. Under the old rules this "swine" flu would not have been even classified as a pandemic.

[Fishu]

Fishu, Your response leads me to believe you have more than layman's knowledge.  Did you go to medical school?

No, I'm only following the news and seeking information to fill the blanks like the rest of you. Although I was good at biology thoughout the school years, especially interested in microbiology (cells, viruses, bacterias etc.), and biology was part of my main subjects of matriculation examination. However at school it never went enough in depth for what I would have preferred.

Microbiology and genetics studies would have interested me, if it wouldn't been for really poor chance of employament after graduation. Doctors would be guaranteed to get employed, but I'm not so interested in that regardless of my grades (I'll rather be a lawyer; humanity is overrated, tee hee). Of course I'm still curious of the developments in microbiology, genetics and treatments.

[Fishu]

But there is no profit for any pharma manufacturers when nobody gets sick anymore oops   that would mean trillions of profits lost and you wonder why there is never a real cure for anything, just things that keep you going a little longer, very expensive usually.

There will always be market for medicine and it doesn't require an artificially created demand. People will never be that healthy that they could just ignore microbis. Neither will any medicine cure everything once and for all. Think of that when you next time take a pain pill for a plain headache or after a dentist appointment.

[Nwbie]

Quick someone find out where Dr Jonas Salk is buried, I am quite sure he would be spinning in his grave ....

 

[Angus]

Go on Wiki and put the words "Spanish Flu" in the search string. It will explain to you why the Swine Flu is of concern.
As I mentioned before, there is little news of mutation, so today it's a Flu as far as I know. Very catchy, but just a flu. But the 1918 one was very related and this is what happened:
"The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much deadlier than the first. The first wave had resembled typical flu epidemics; those most at risk were the sick and elderly, while younger, healthier people recovered easily. But in August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone and the United States,[41] the virus had mutated to a much deadlier form. This has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.[42] In civilian life evolutionary pressures favour a mild strain: those who get really sick stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, go to work and go shopping, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches the evolutionary pressures were reversed: soldiers with a mild strain remained where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. So the second wave began and flu quickly spread around the world again.[43] It was the same flu, in that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections were immune, but it was now far more deadly, and the most vulnerable people were those who were like the soldiers in the trenches—young, otherwise healthy adults.[44] Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval, looking for deadlier strains of the virus.[43]"
The ones who already had it are the lucky ones, for the immunity is there. Another way to get immunity is by vaccination, which will strain your immune system, just not as much as the flu. This is how it works.
I must say, I am baffled by the hostile attitude against vaccination in general on this board, and cannot explain it with any other term than sheer ignorance.
Oh, by the way, we do have a biologist on this board. Biology is also a hobby of mine, as well as diagnosis of various diseases as well as vaccinations of lifestock is a part of my job.
We covered pox here. How many of you bitten by a rabid dog would take the chance and decline treatment. (rabis shot is basically a vaccination since it will give the body an immediate respond for a threat that comes later). Ready to try your luck on that one?

[Viperius]

Think of that when you next time take a pain pill for a plain headache or after a dentist appointment.

Sorry to disappoint you but I never take pills for headaches or dentist appointments.
There is an accupressure point on your body, when triggered it releases the same substance that is in aspirin, in short youve been buying a substance that your body produces naturally.

But keep on believing that newspaper actually print the truth and are objective.

I will leave you with a quote from John Swinton chief editorial writer at The New York Times in the 1860s and a writer and editor for The New York Sun from 1875 to 1883.

"There is no such thing, at this stage of the world’s history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my papers, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

[MORAY37]

Healthy immune system > any vaccination.

Wrong.

[Fishu]

I don't believe in news papers without reservation. I've corrected them one time too many, like basically rewriting an article.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I guess that means the argumentation is over since it's gone to direct insults in the lack of a better response.

I take it that you gracefully stepped down on the challenge, thank you.

[Fishu]

I must say, I am baffled by the hostile attitude against vaccination in general on this board, and cannot explain it with any other term than sheer ignorance.

I'm not really that baffled by the magnitude of this, not even surprised. I'm frustrated however.

All this anti-vaccination nonsense is quite convincing since alot of people are on it and it's an easy choice to go along with the mass. You don't really seem lose much more than at most probably a week or two of your life on sick leave. And that's right after there was this dreadful killer virus which turned out to be a damn flu! What a relief. Now there's information that the flu vaccine is this and that along with lots of people telling you so. So you might ponder what to do, whether to believe the others or not and perhaps take a risk of getting sick by the vaccine or just maybe contract the flu - you'll live and you can safely ignore all the supposed risks of the vaccine, since who knows, maybe they were right.

People by nature prefer to be on the safe side and even a hint of fear can affect rational decision making.


MrRiplEy[H],

Have fun with the swine flu and whatever future viruses there will be for there will be many to come. It isn't my life, but just make sure you stay at home when you get sick, at least until the next year. I would much prefer to have my shot before some working hero of the year spreads the virus to all the fellow commuters and co-workers, including me. The vaccine is not witchcraft.