Author Topic: Does sportsmanship matter?  (Read 7528 times)

Offline mechanic

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2009, 10:08:38 AM »
Good sportsmanship is like chosing not to lie. You might think at first it's only benifiting others but in the end your soul is empty, it's for your own enjoyment.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline TheBug

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2009, 11:52:48 AM »
Some use "it's a game" to excuse their poor sportsmanship. I think sportsmanship does matter in everything you do.


+1
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2009, 12:55:42 PM »
bahhh   sportsmanship is for athletics...this is real war here!!!









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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2009, 01:37:34 PM »
So I wonder, does a sense of sportsmanship matter in here anymore?

Does for me. 

Cant answer for the rest; only observe.

Offline MutleyBR

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2009, 02:08:54 PM »
Some use "it's a game" to excuse their poor sportsmanship. I think sportsmanship does matter in everything you do.


+1

+2
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2009, 02:36:53 PM »
Nice try, but being unpleasant to your adversary during a game, even thought it may be standard these days, is a sign of just how low our culture has sunk ... My wry comment about the bomb was simply to illustrate how profoundly AHII is NOT war.
You are right about how AH2 is NOT war - I should have thought about my choice of words in my first post.

For the rest, See my second post. Again, it's just a matter of your priorities. Are you here to make friends? Or are you here to win at all (legitimate) costs? And again, being within the rules is what separates taunting from bomb placing and hacking. It may be equally unpleasant, but one is legal, the other two are not.

That is the rational analysis. Any statements of being "wrong" or "it's how low our culture has sunk" are just moralizing, and everybody has a different set of standards.

In fact, such backlash against "win-at-all" costs behavior is probably the result of your personal preference for the social aspect of this game. This is what you are here for (and apparently how you conduct yourself in life) so in order to protect those ideals, you feel it necessary to condemn the "playing to win" mentality.

see the problem with that though......is those that are running, are doing nothing but laughing at you as you taunt them. the only way to generally get thjem to turn, is for you to show em your tail.  
How effective taunting is arguable. I tend to agree with you. If I'm the runner and I'm taunted, I'm just as you described - I'm laughing.

That of course isn't the point - it's the attitude involved, the "win at all costs" mentality.

I can't blame you when its all you see out of sports and what have you these days, but it is still wrong.
Nope, the conflict we're having here of "playing to win" and "sportsmanship" is present in virtually every game community. It was present in the chess community of the 1800s. Howard Staunton, a chess columnist for a London newspaper, would frequently abuse his editorial paper to "trash-talk" his opponents. Apparently Staunton would use every conceivable out-of-game advantage he could including making his opponent sit facing the sun. It may be more prevalent today, sure.

The funny thing is, trash-talking relies on a big population that believes in sportsmanship and gentlemanliness. Trash talking gets the friendly guys angry, makes them denounce the trash talkers, etc etc, just like in this thread. And that is precisely how it works, drawing (negative) attention to the trash talkers but also clouding the judgement of the sportsmanship crowd. They feed off the attention and the irritation they cause.

Random pop culture reference: remember in Return of the Jedi where Darth Vader taunts Luke into a rage? Even though Luke beats the snot out of Vader with his anger, the taunting had its intended effect - Luke was now angry and on the verge of converting to the dark side.

As I outlined in my second post... it's pretty simple:

Are you here to make friends or are you here to win at all (legitimate) costs? If you are here to win, are you good enough that you don't need to resort to "bad sportsmanship"?

Answer those two questions about any person, and you'll know how they'll behave in regards to this issue.

Personally, I'm here to make friends, with winning a secondary consideration. When I meet the taunters, I steer clear, squelch etc. But I never try to take the moral high ground to say that my way is the "right way" or that it's "wrong" for them to do it.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 04:44:35 PM by boomerlu »
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Offline wrag

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2009, 03:52:51 PM »
Some use "it's a game" to excuse their poor sportsmanship. I think sportsmanship does matter in everything you do.


OH SURE!  uuummm hmmmmm sure.....  :O


Say's the EEEEEE-VVIILLLEEE person that shot at poor defenseless, gentle, sweet, kind, lovable, slightly better lookin them Shuffler, wrag ->  :angel:


LOL always fun fights Sir  :salute
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2009, 03:55:08 PM »
"Does sportsmaship matter?    .....YES its the only thing that really matters!
999000 <S>

Says the BOMBER BULLY!!!  :O

Beware!!! He will shot you down!  :cry

He's another one of those CHEATER MEANIE BULLIES!  :eek:

Had some great fights Sir  :salute
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2009, 08:05:54 PM »
 :rofl

Always wrag always <S>
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Offline Bino

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2009, 10:19:34 PM »
Lots of great comments, folks.  Thanks!   :salute

As you can likely tell, sportsmanship matters to me, and it's encouraging to find that I'm not alone in that.


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Offline grizz441

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2009, 05:37:32 AM »
Does for me. 

Cant answer for the rest; only observe.

What have you observed?  <Casts fishing line out>

Offline BnZs

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2009, 09:08:11 AM »
I'm not here to "win at all costs" and neither are you. Do you always fly the "best" plane you can get into the most advantageous circumstances? Or do you try to have a modicum of enjoyment in your plane choice and engagement practices? Sure, I like to win, but win through skill or at least luck, not through taunting some noob in a Pony to turn with my Spit. The friends I've made in this game ARE the best part, and unless someone is really pushing me, I have no desire for ANYONE to walk away from an AH session peeved off or otherwise feeling negative. Enough of that in the world, thank you.


You are right about how AH2 is NOT war - I should have thought about my choice of words in my first post.

For the rest, See my second post. Again, it's just a matter of your priorities. Are you here to make friends? Or are you here to win at all (legitimate) costs? And again, being within the rules is what separates taunting from bomb placing and hacking. It may be equally unpleasant, but one is legal, the other two are not.

That is the rational analysis. Any statements of being "wrong" or "it's how low our culture has sunk" are just moralizing, and everybody has a different set of standards.

In fact, such backlash against "win-at-all" costs behavior is probably the result of your personal preference for the social aspect of this game. This is what you are here for (and apparently how you conduct yourself in life) so in order to protect those ideals, you feel it necessary to condemn the "playing to win" mentality.
How effective taunting is arguable. I tend to agree with you. If I'm the runner and I'm taunted, I'm just as you described - I'm laughing.

That of course isn't the point - it's the attitude involved, the "win at all costs" mentality.
Nope, the conflict we're having here of "playing to win" and "sportsmanship" is present in virtually every game community. It was present in the chess community of the 1800s. Howard Staunton, a chess columnist for a London newspaper, would frequently abuse his editorial paper to "trash-talk" his opponents. Apparently Staunton would use every conceivable out-of-game advantage he could including making his opponent sit facing the sun. It may be more prevalent today, sure.

The funny thing is, trash-talking relies on a big population that believes in sportsmanship and gentlemanliness. Trash talking gets the friendly guys angry, makes them denounce the trash talkers, etc etc, just like in this thread. And that is precisely how it works, drawing (negative) attention to the trash talkers but also clouding the judgement of the sportsmanship crowd. They feed off the attention and the irritation they cause.

Random pop culture reference: remember in Return of the Jedi where Darth Vader taunts Luke into a rage? Even though Luke beats the snot out of Vader with his anger, the taunting had its intended effect - Luke was now angry and on the verge of converting to the dark side.

As I outlined in my second post... it's pretty simple:

Are you here to make friends or are you here to win at all (legitimate) costs? If you are here to win, are you good enough that you don't need to resort to "bad sportsmanship"?

Answer those two questions about any person, and you'll know how they'll behave in regards to this issue.

Personally, I'm here to make friends, with winning a secondary consideration. When I meet the taunters, I steer clear, squelch etc. But I never try to take the moral high ground to say that my way is the "right way" or that it's "wrong" for them to do it.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2009, 09:25:14 AM »
The friends I've made in this game ARE the best part, and unless someone is really pushing me, I have no desire for ANYONE to walk away from an AH session peeved off or otherwise feeling negative. Enough of that in the world, thank you.

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Offline boomerlu

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2009, 04:39:58 PM »
Hmm... I'm beginning to refine my views on this.

A core following of positive sportsmanlike players/competitors is essential for the survival and health of any game community. A "play-to-win" mentality isn't. However, I don't believe we can eliminate that mentality, nor should we seek its elimination either.

Think about the extremes - nobody is nice to each other in game (driving lots of potential players away) or everybody is nice (everybody is comfortable with their skills and don't seek to improve them). Seems like we should seek an equilibrium, one that leans towards sportsmanship, but preserves some amount of the hardcore play-to-win attitude.

Slightly off topic:

In other games I've played among my friends, the best players have occasionally gone so far as to dumb down their own play so the worst players can keep up and there is some semblance of competition. This is one example of being "too nice" (insofar in that it has exceeded sportsmanship requirements) and I would much rather have one trash talker in every 10 players than have everybody too nice - it dramatically slows down the evolution of the game. After all, while my main priority may be to make friends/have fun, I can't neglect that a huge part of the enjoyment comes from the challenge of air combat - flying my best and seeing what results. If it didn't, I would be engaging in purely social activities rather than trying to saddle up on Spits.

For me, that's where I draw the line of "being nice". I can keep my mouth shut just fine, give salutes just fine, but dumbing down my flying so a noob doesn't ragequit is going too far.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 04:42:20 PM by boomerlu »
boomerlu
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Offline blkmgc

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Re: Does sportsmanship matter?
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2009, 05:09:34 PM »
I think Im missing the link between talking garbage, and playing to win. I know players who play to win, and don't act like the ones that the OP is talking about.
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