graphics card info

[SPKmes]

I currently have a 128 9600gt ati radeon...this runs things ok with high res and detail on..I don't have all the goods on though due to problems with frames in furballs over land. My question is (yes a PC upgrade is needed but financially not going to happen) would upping to a 256 or higher of the same card have much of an impact?? also is there perhaps another type that would give me that little bit extra to run full graphics full time? My system is AGP

I am quite happy with what I have for now but would like to run it with full as it is so pretty hahaha

Currently with graphics off I average 70 frames...graphics on 30ish..water and reflections 25 ish but I do take big frame drops during multi con engagements with the latter on

[Fulmar]

Your card is more than likely an AGP card.  I'll make this short.  If you can live with your card right now, you should be saving up that 'video card upgrade money' for a new computer.

[SPKmes]

Your card is more than likely an AGP card.  I'll make this short.  If you can live with your card right now, you should be saving up that 'video card upgrade money' for a new computer.

Yes this is an AGP card....

Stick with what I have then...sweet   Cheers

[gyrene81]

That's an option of course but, if you have a little money set aside and don't want to go through a full system upgrade right now (read as "instant gratification") there are some really good ATI chipset options available in the AGP slot type...Radeon 4670 in the 1GB DDR3 configuration can be had for $125 or less.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161284

What's the rest of the hardware information on your system?

[Fulmar]

$125 can go a long way to buying a new computer.  AGP is getting quite dated.

[gyrene81]

$125 can go a long way to buying a new computer.  AGP is getting quite dated.

True, but then so is my $160 bowling ball after only 10 months...PCI Express lasted 12 months (if that)...PCIE-x16 went almost 12 months...for some reason there is a bigger selection of AGP remaining than for PCI-E or x16. We should not equated "dated" with "useless".

If I didn't have the money to invest in a new gaming system, $125 graphics card investment on my P4 system would be a good deal since it is still powerful enough to run Win7.

[Fulmar]

The performance difference in bowling balls is no where near the advancement in graphics cards.  PCI-Express has 3 common configuraitons.

PCI-E 1X - special applications, network cards, sound cards
PCI-E 4X - usually controller cards for SCSI etc
PCI-E 16X (1.0 and 2.0) - backwards compatible, video cards use this slot.  Similar to AGP 1x-8x differences

As AGP cards uncommon and less manufacturers carry them, their prices go up.  A PCI-E version of a ATI 4670 1GB runs $69.99 while a AGP version runs $109.99.  If he can live with that system for a bit, why spend $110-$125 on a video card he won't be able to use in a new build?  AGP cards are limited in the performance because of the bandwidth limitations.

Tomshardware.com did an article a few months back talking about using (new) high end AGP cards in older systems.  IIRC they were talking about the ATI 3850 AGP which was the best one available on the market back in early spring.  To sum up the article, you're running into performance bottlenecks with the CPU more so than the GPU.  The newer architechure cards weren't being fully utilized by these older CPU's, for which the VAST majority were true single cores (HT aside).  So the performance gains were mute.

[SPKmes]

I have been reading these posts and thank you guys for your input....I must tell you that I am 8-12 mths from realistically purchasing or building a new system. This time frame is totally dependant on costs for educating my dependants, which is ever changing....I come last when it comes to them...Price wise...$125 is just under 1/10 of the cost of a new system here  (NZ)... this is based on a build Tildeath did for ABDC.....Although I will go new at a later stage I was wanting to find the benefits of upgrading my card if any... on average all the AGP cards here are between $90 and $150....you do get your oddly over the top priced ones also..

As I had said. I can live with the graphics off... but I do like the candy too... was just looking for thoughts from people like yourselves who have a greater knowledge of these things than I do.

once again thank you.

[BaldEagl]

PCI Express lasted 12 months (if that)...PCIE-x16 went almost 12 months...for some reason there is a bigger selection of AGP remaining than for PCI-E or x16. We should not equated "dated" with "useless".

Not in the least bit true.  PCI-E x16 1.0 and 2.0 are cross compatible (either type card can be used in either type slot).  There are FAR more PCI-E x16 flavor cards available than AGP, which is a dated technology.

PCI-E 16X (1.0 and 2.0) - backwards compatible, video cards use this slot.  Similar to AGP 1x-8x differences

There's one major difference in that each speed AGP card is keyed differently from it's predicessor so you have to use the right speed card for the slot although there was a "universal" keyed version that worked across at least a few of the differing slot types.

Tongs, I've been a bit financially strapped for several years now and am in the position where I need to get every bit of life I can out of everything I own, computers included.  You may see a gain from a better card even though it's AGP but we'd really need to know what you have for a CPU, RAM and power supply to know if it would be worthwhile.  You might just create a bottleneck or may have to upgrade in other areas as well to get better performance.  Once you know what the total investment is going to be then you can decide if it's worth it to gain a year or two.

[SPKmes]

I now have 1 stick of 1 gb ram and 1 of 500mb installed. I also have SP3. I have a sound blaster card
 With those additions this is what I have.

I can if needed redo my Dx and post when I get home later.


Time of this report: 9/5/2008, 15:14:55
       Machine name: --
   Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: AWARD_
       System Model: AWRDACPI
               BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
             Memory: 1024MB RAM
          Page File: 412MB used, 1232MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
     DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

[gyrene81]

Well, that's a hyperthreading processor. If your motherboard is a dual channel unit, those memory sticks aren't going to be performing like they should...you want 2 matched sticks. You're also going to need to cut down on the background processes running (412MB paging file is too big). If you have Norton, McAffee, Trend Micro, or other similar anti-virus programs, get rid of it and use one of the anti-virus programs that has a lot less overhead on the background processes.


Baldy, the only reason there are so many PCI-E x16 cards available is because it's the latest tech...just like everything else, nothing more. AGP ran its course and is obviously old tech, but for the OP here, the best AGP card available is not a completely out of the question upgrade, considering a new system that will last more than a year will cost $700+. The video card in question here is a signficant upgrade from his current model and at a price he can afford immediately. With some further assistance from the knowledge base here, I'm betting he would be good to go for more than another year with the Radeon 4670. The fact that a PCI-E model is half the cost doesn't help him in any way since it would mean putting together another computer.

Easy for people to talk about "saving money" when you have some to save but there are more people living paycheck to paycheck with a family to care for than there are people who have spare money to save. No offense here fellas but, put yourselves in the shoes of the OP's here once in a while...all the "Toms Hardware" info and "a new system would be better" does not address the issue at hand if the OP says they cannot afford the new systems that some have the luxury of buying.

[SPKmes]

Ok so I need to get another 1Gb stick I didn't realize this could be a problem.... the processes issue has been seen to....I run avg (although I am not sure this totally shuts down)  and spybot but cut these out and other processes with Game booster before getting online AH.....
 I get down to about 26 processes  (I haven't actually checked since Tac played around with it and shut down a lot of things that started on start up)  I will check this out tonight and see if perhaps this has changed. I will run a another DX tonight, as much can change in the year of life on a PC I'd say.


Oh yes I forgot to say my power unit is small...from memory I believe it is 400w

[gyrene81]

Oh yes I forgot to say my power unit is small...from memory I believe it is 400w

That's the minimum recommended for that card...more is always better though.

[Fulmar]

When its comes to watts and a video card, the wattage rating is basically a rough gauge on what kind of power you need.  The video card manufacturer will have it listed hown many amps you need on your 12V+ rail to power the card.  Different PSU manufacturers put different amps on their rails and these numbers are always fudged.  You'll have it say 400W but when you add up the amps across all the rails, you may find its only 350W or less.

[BaldEagl]

It looks to me like the CPU will handle the video card without creating a bottleneck.  It also appears on the surface that the PSU will handle it too.  If that's the case I'd go ahead and get the video card and another 1Gb stick of the same RAM.

I'd also get rid of any uneeded data and unused applications then do a disc clean-up and defrag.  Turn off any auto-updaters you have running and start menu items that you don't need to automatically start then go to blackviper.com to see what services you can turn off.

You should see a nice little performance boost.

Baldy, the only reason there are so many PCI-E x16 cards available is because it's the latest tech...just like everything else, nothing more.

I was simply responding to this comment which you now seem to retract:

...for some reason there is a bigger selection of AGP remaining than for PCI-E or x16.

Which is it?

AGP ran its course and is obviously old tech, but for the OP here, the best AGP card available is not a completely out of the question upgrade, considering a new system that will last more than a year will cost $700+. The video card in question here is a signficant upgrade from his current model and at a price he can afford immediately. With some further assistance from the knowledge base here, I'm betting he would be good to go for more than another year with the Radeon 4670. The fact that a PCI-E model is half the cost doesn't help him in any way since it would mean putting together another computer.

Easy for people to talk about "saving money" when you have some to save but there are more people living paycheck to paycheck with a family to care for than there are people who have spare money to save. No offense here fellas but, put yourselves in the shoes of the OP's here once in a while...all the "Toms Hardware" info and "a new system would be better" does not address the issue at hand if the OP says they cannot afford the new systems that some have the luxury of buying.

You evidently totally misinterpreted what I said:

Tongs, I've been a bit financially strapped for several years now and am in the position where I need to get every bit of life I can out of everything I own, computers included.  You may see a gain from a better card even though it's AGP but we'd really need to know what you have for a CPU, RAM and power supply to know if it would be worthwhile.  You might just create a bottleneck or may have to upgrade in other areas as well to get better performance.  Once you know what the total investment is going to be then you can decide if it's worth it to gain a year or two.

I was advocating getting the AGP card if it made sense in the context of the rest of his system.