Forum Debate: Greatest Commander of all time!

[Tac]

I think its very relative.

Commander by definition is a leadership position; military.

So...

Commander as in leader of all the armed forces of his entire nation/tribe?

This one I'd say Napoleon. The fact that he royally screwed up in Russia and later lost in Waterloo is beyond the point. The guy was in charge of ALL the military of his nation and led it to victory after victory to the point where several powerful nations had to join up and declare war not on France but on HIM personally.

Commander as in leader of a force engaged in battle?

I'd say whatever the name is of the Roman general that led the legions against the uprising of bodaciea (sp?) in the british isles. It was what? 100 thousand britons vs 2000 roman legionairres and the romans not only won but slaughtered like half of them while losing under 100 men. In an age of swords thats pretty damn impressive.

And no, the 300 spartans dont beat them because the spartans had the luxury of time to choose their battlefield, a massive terrain advantage and they weren't 300 but 10,000+ defending the pass. This roman fellow was marching his 2000 legionairres to meet another force of roman soldiers to link up and then squash the rebellion... and they were almost ambushed by the 100k rebels...it was the roman commander's quick thinking and skill that led his few men to a position on a field with forests covering both their flanks and make their stand. And he won. O.o

Commander as in leader of a limited number of forces of his nation/tribe?

This one's a tough one since theres so many good ones. McArthur, Patton, the Taiko (jp medieval period), joan d'arc... all led incredibly sucessful campaigns so it depends on what you use to define 'greatest'.

[Angus]

Hannibal had some good moves...

[Angus]

Oh and since fighting overwhelming numbers comes into mind, how's 130 holding of 4000-5000 men?
Rorke's drift 22 to 23 January of 1879
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorke%27s_Drift
Images from that war are 7:56 minutes in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-dfOpRTHPE&feature=related

[Anaxogoras]

And no, the 300 spartans dont beat them because the spartans had the luxury of time to choose their battlefield, a massive terrain advantage and they weren't 300 but 10,000+ defending the pass.

That is a huge exaggeration, and I'm no defender of what we saw in the movies.  Perhaps you are conflating the initial number of Greeks who went to defend Thermopylae with the number who actually remained to die there.  That number might be closer to 2,500-3,000, but we will never know for certain.  Sparta herself could never have fielded 10,000 of her own citizens in a military campaign because of a fear of helot revolt in Lacedaemon.

[Ghosth]

Belisarius

[Swager]

Hannibal.

Gave the Romans a pretty good butt kickin.....

.......in their own land!

[Blooz]

For me it's a tie between Vo Nguyen Giap and George Washington.

Both commanded in two wars. Both rose to the top of their profession. Both defeated strong enemies.

[LLogann]

If it weren't for the fact that my vote goes with Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz

Alexander.  The victories he pulled off against much larger, and still skilled, enemy forces have yet to be equaled, in my opinion.

Jan. 1905 - Annapolis (19 year old graduate)


~1907 - Probably the Philippines


May 1939 - USS Arizona (Relieving command of Battleship Division 1)


Jan. 1943 - Button Naval Base (Nimitz & "Bull" Halsey)


Early 1945 - Pearl Harbor (Only 1 of 4 five-Star Admirals during WWII, Fleet Admiral)


Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz died at home in San Francisco on February 20, 1966.  A few days before his 81st birthday.  His funeral..... Was on his birthday.  He was the last surviving five-star admiral.


He literally ended WWII.

Decorations and awards from foreign governments include:
Britain - Order of Knight Grand Cross of the Bath
Greece - Grand Cross of the Order of George I
China - Order of the Grand Cordon of Pao Ting (Tripod) Special Class
Guatemala - LaCruz de Merito Military de Primera Clase
Great Britain - Pacific Star
The Netherlands - Order of Orange-Nassau with Swords in the Degree of
the Knight Grand Cross
France - Grand Officer in the National Order of the Legion of Honor
Cuba - Grand Cross of the Order of Carlos Manuel de Cespedes
Argentina - Order of the Liberator
Belgium - Grand Cross of the Order of the Liberator, Grand Cross Order of
the Crown with Palm, Croiz de Guerro with Palm
Italy - Knight of the Grand Cross of the Military Order of Italy
Philippines - Medal of Valor
Ecuador - Star of Abdon Calderson (1st Class)










Even Chalenge is hinting at Nimitz.......  

Im thinking of a commander that defeats his enemies without fighting battles. In fact he can disarm and win against any opponent by using only one word. Rather than make you all appear foolish I will not share his name so that none of you soil your undies or die of embarrassment over the poor souls you have mentioned already.  

AND..... I have confirmation from the FBI & CIA, as well as the Sec of Defense that the only thing to ever defeat Chuck Norris was the USS Nimitz....


So there!

[killjoy1]

Field Marshal Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, KG, KP, GCB, GCH, PC, FRS

He's remembered for Waterloo, but his action during the Peninsular War with Napoleon's army was reasoned brilliance.  He went from surrounded in Lisbon, Portugal (look at the map) with crap for support in England to conquering Spain and invading France and then defeating Napoleon the first time. 

What other general could marshal resources from England to Lisbon for 30,000 soldiers and fight an army three times his size.  Take a look at a list of victories during this 6 year campaign. 

Battle of Roliça,
Battle of Vimeiro,
Second Battle of Porto, he crossed the Douro river in a daylight coup de main, and routed Marshal Soult's French troops in Porto
Battle of Talavera. For this, Wellesley was ennobled as "Viscount Wellington of Talavera and of Wellington"
Buçaco

He prevented the French from taking the Lisbon peninsula by his massive earthworks, the Lines of Torres Vedras, which had been assembled in complete secrecy and had flanks guarded by the Royal Navy. The baffled and starving French invasion forces retreated after six months.

Battle of Sabugal
Battle of Fuentes de Onoro
Ciudad Rodrigo
Badajoz
Battle of Salamanca

He liberated the Spanish capital of Madrid. As reward, he was created "Earl" and then "Marquess of Wellington" and given command of all Allied armies in Spain.

Battle of Vitoria  - He personally led a column against the French centre. Promoted to Field Marshall,
Pamplona
San Sebastián
Pyrenees,
Bidassoa
Nivelle
Orthez
Toulouse

The simple fact, however, is that Wellington was never defeated by Napoleon or by any of Napoleon's generals.

Now if this is not enough, consider that Wellington's first act as Prime Minister was to pass the Beer Act of 1830 designed to move the populace away from “spirits” such as gin, the Beer Act entitled nearly anyone to manufacture, sell, and consume large amounts of beer and ale.  By 1831 there was in England and Wales a licensed drinking establishment for every one-hundred and sixty-eight members of the population. 

Wellington should be the Patron Saint of Aces High.

[wrag]

Genghis Khan...

conquered more territory then Alexander or Napoleon...............

many scholars suggest we might all be speaking Arabic without him...........

[themaj]

Lord Nelson

 "Legacy of Lord Nelson

Nelson was noted for his considerable ability to inspire and bring out the best in his men, to the point that it gained a name: "The Nelson Touch". Famous even while alive, after his death he was lionised like almost no other military figure in British history (his only peers are the Duke of Marlborough and Nelson's contemporary, the Duke of Wellington). Most military historians believe Nelson's ability to inspire officers of the highest rank and seamen of the lowest was central to his many victories, as was his unequalled ability to both strategically plan his campaigns and tactically shift his forces in the midst of battle. Certainly, he ranks as one of the greatest field commanders in military history. Many consider him to have been the greatest warrior of the seas."

[cpxxx]

Field Marshal Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, KG, KP, GCB, GCH, PC, FRS

etc

The simple fact, however, is that Wellington was never defeated by Napoleon or by any of Napoleon's generals.

Now if this is not enough, consider that Wellington's first act as Prime Minister was to pass the Beer Act of 1830 designed to move the populace away from “spirits” such as gin, the Beer Act entitled nearly anyone to manufacture, sell, and consume large amounts of beer and ale.  By 1831 there was in England and Wales a licensed drinking establishment for every one-hundred and sixty-eight members of the population. 

Wellington should be the Patron Saint of Aces High.

Not only all that but he was Irish too! Actually that's who I thought of first. Although I didn't know about the beer.

[Chalenge]

Okay... (not that either of these is the one I was hinting at before)...

General John J. Pershing OR General Douglas MacArthur.

Every other name mentioned (except Nimitz) fails to measure up because of the lack of sophistication in warfare of their era. I am leaning toward MacArthur but Pershing saved millions and millions of lives by circumnavigating the trench warfare ideal. MacArthur saved millions too so its hard to pick which one was the better commander.

Nimitz did make some bullheaded mistakes though...