Author Topic: Would it have been possible for...  (Read 922 times)

Offline Motherland

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Would it have been possible for...
« on: November 02, 2009, 04:24:16 PM »
Would it have been possible for France to have ended WWII if they would have jumped on Germany while Germany was still in Poland instead of waiting to take the defensive?

Offline Karnak

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 04:25:59 PM »
Would it have been possible for France to have ended WWII if they would have jumped on Germany while Germany was still in Poland instead of waiting to take the defensive?
Probably, honestly.  Germany did not have enough military to defend against the very large French army while they were bogged down in Poland.  Even if France had lost in the end, it would have massively changed things going forward.
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Offline Curlew

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 04:29:32 PM »
The frech would have done well to not stop buidling the zegot line at the belgium border
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 04:34:34 PM »
The frech would have done well to not stop buidling the zegot line at the belgium border

The Maginot Line?   
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 04:35:21 PM »
Probably, honestly.  Germany did not have enough military to defend against the very large French army while they were bogged down in Poland.  Even if France had lost in the end, it would have massively changed things going forward.

I agree 100%.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 04:36:06 PM »
The frech would have done well to not stop buidling the zegot line at the belgium border
I've never heard of the Zegot line, but if you mean the Maginot Line it was connected to Belgian defenses, and Germany actually attacked the line...

Quote
Probably, honestly.  Germany did not have enough military to defend against the very large French army while they were bogged down in Poland.  Even if France had lost in the end, it would have massively changed things going forward.
That's how I've begun to figure...
It's interesting that there seems to be a prevailing myth that Germany had a massive army from the outbreak of the war.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 04:39:04 PM by Motherland »

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 04:43:33 PM »
The evidence says that Germany was unprepared for a French offensive that the French were unwilling to make.  There's a saying that France went into both world wars with the wrong mentality.  In WW1 they wanted to attack when they should've defended.  In WW2 they wanted to defend when they should've attacked.
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Offline minke

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 04:43:44 PM »
They had what? 900,000 enlisted troops + 5 mil reservists, about 1000 a/c 25% of which were bombers. IIrc Very few effective tanks, certainly nothing that could stand up to the wermacht. I dont think they could have done it. The german army made mincemeat of them anyhow, the maignot line and all.

Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 05:00:43 PM »
They had what? 900,000 enlisted troops + 5 mil reservists, about 1000 a/c 25% of which were bombers. IIrc Very few effective tanks, certainly nothing that could stand up to the wermacht. I dont think they could have done it. The german army made mincemeat of them anyhow, the maignot line and all.
France had tanks equal to or better than the Panzer IIs fielded by the Germans.  I can't recall if Panzer IIIs were numerous in the invasion of May 1940, but even these were not monsters. 

The French did not deploy their armor in concentrations large enough to counter the point of attack of the massed German armor.  The defeat of France was as much psychology as tactics.  The French had had enough war as of WWI.  They built the Maginot Line (wtf 'zegot?') to fight a similar lengthy war of attrition.  Diplomacy kept them from putting the Belgians on the outside of this snug little wall.  So, they left the door open, with the strategic plan to rush into Belgium.  Which they did, along with the BEF.  Which was cut off by the attack through the Ardennes.  Then Dunkirk.  Fall of Paris. ...

There is no end to 'what if' scenarios.  Giving up the Sudetenland (Munich Agreement), reoccupation of the Rhineland, Einstein time traveling to assassinate Hitler ..., if only I hadn't married my first wife ...
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 05:13:29 PM »
The German military was not capable of fighting a two front war at that time.  Frankly, had they known the French and British would actually declare war on them for going into Poland they probably would not have.  They thought it was a bluff.  If they were caught off guard by war being declared, imagine their shock if that declaration had been swiftly followed by France, mobilizing as fast as possible, mimicking a blitzkrieg to Berlin, supported by whatever the British could add to the majority French effort.

Yes, in reality there are multiple things that blocked such an action being possible, but that is not the purpose of running "what if" mental games.
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Offline batch

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 05:41:06 PM »
someone has to say it so I might as well.........

I dont think France had their white flag factory fully operational until after 1939
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 05:51:16 PM »
someone has to say it so I might as well.........

I dont think France had their white flag factory fully operational until after 1939
Go. To. Hell.

Actually, just read some history books about the subject.  :aok
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Offline Becinhu

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 05:56:34 PM »
France would have steamrolled Germany's armor divisions....if they drove in reverse.   :t :rofl
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 06:02:18 PM »
France would have steamrolled Germany's armor divisions....if they drove in reverse.   :t :rofl
You need to learn some history too.  You're woefully ignorant.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Would it have been possible for...
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2009, 06:04:20 PM »
certainly nothing that could stand up to the wermacht. I dont think they could have done it. The german army made mincemeat of them anyhow, the maignot line and all.
The more and more I read about the German conquests and campaigns, the more I get the feeling that their successes (especially in the West) was as much a matter of luck and the fact that they introduced concepts that no one had really explored fully before and embraced them fully, catching their enemies off guard (as was the case in Poland and France, and to a lesser extent in the USSR). The German Army seems have been overstretched through the majority of the war (not just after Barbarossa). You can see that in the event that the Blitzkrieg failed neither the German Army nor the Luftwaffe were capable of fighting any other type of war. Certainly if Galland's word means anything from the Battle of Britain on, the Jagdwaffe was far overstretched. The Luftwaffe was never cut out to fight any battle other than the Blitzkrieg.

This is why I wonder about France invading Germany. I just can't imagine that they could have fought a defensive war against France, especially. with the majority of their forces in Poland.