Frame 1 Rules Clarification.......

[Baumer]

Dadguns

As the Admin CM for this event I went over EVERY SINGLE BULLET AND BOMB STRIKE (roughly 14,000 lines of log entries) on the CV. I can assure you that;

1.) 100lbs Bombs from the B-17's did hit the CV

2.) 500lbs Bombs from the P-40E's did hit the CV

As I stated with the first response in this thread, this attack was within the rules and intent of FSO.

[Dadsguns]

Thank you. Got it.  Strafing cv's is legit.  Its not MA'ish. Its authentic and historically accurate.  Roger that.

[BigR]

This has really gotten out of hand. Maybe it WAS gamey. TOO BAD. Gamey things happen in games. Stop crying. This game is obviously very serious to you. I suggest therapy. Someone please lock this thread.

[M36]

Now that we are back to square one, what is the interpretation of the rule in the first post Baumer or anyone else in the position to decide? Strafing is allowed or not so I can pass it on to the squadies?

Stop crying. This game is obviously very serious to you. I suggest therapy. Someone please lock this thread.

Very constructive remark BigR!!!! Does that make you feel good inside and satisfy the superiority above all complex you feel over others that post here?   

[Dantoo]

There is no confusion about this rule, nor has there ever been, amongst more experienced players.  The people responding in the thread are probably feeling frustrated by what seem to be attempts to select pieces out of a single rule rather than take it as a whole.  That's the feeling I get, but it's for them to say.

If you are briefing your squad about conventions normally in use here's a bunch:

You can use the ride you were issued with to shoot with at any target, but you cannot use a ground, ship gun or chute pistol (on the ground) unless specifically stated that you can do so in the frame rules.
You can "join" another player and gun for him or just travel with him as a lookout and criticise his flying as you will.
You can vulch people on the rearm pad.
Killshooter is usually off.  Shooting friendly forces or objects deliberately is forbidden.
Using channel 200 is forbidden.
If you want to speak to a CM they lurk on Ch202.
If you disco or crash in the first 15 minutes, before contacting the enemy, you can reup without asking.
If you have more players than you are supposed to have (more than 2 over) they can be "farmed" out to a squad that is short without prior arrangement, or they can simply "join" another player.
If CICs agree to end a frame early and it is so announced, then that's it, game over.  No chasing down somebody returning home or trying to disengage.
If you get the opposition game plan by accident, just delete it without reading it.  This stuff happens, no big deal.
If you suspect that something has happened that is not quite "according to Hoyle" then use the private channels to take it up with an appropriate CM in the first instance.

There's probably more but they are the topics I see most queried by the young and restless.

In FSO, it is attitude that is the big difference from the MA, not gameplay.  As it is a squad event, discipline and education are necessary at the squad level for the FSO attitude to prevail. If you want a rule clarified and a CM has clarified it then it's usually best to take it off the boards and harass them privately until you understand it.   

[BigR]

Now that we are back to square one, what is the interpretation of the rule in the first post Baumer or anyone else in the position to decide? Strafing is allowed or not so I can pass it on to the squadies?

Very constructive remark BigR!!!! Does that make you feel good inside and satisfy the superiority above all complex you feel over others that post here?   

No, its just absolutely pathetic that this thread has gone so far. Then again i know how much this community likes to beat dead horses, so by all means keep trying to come up with excuses why they lost the CV. If it wouldn't have sunk, they wouldn't have complained about people strafing it. The game is what it is. Strafing has to be legit because there is no way you can stop it from doing damage. What if we had strafed it, and THEN dropped a bomb that killed it. Would it be legit to you then?? People never complain about strafing down a VH. Why is this any different? Do you mean that bullets can make a whole building blow up and disappear all together?? It can certainly make the hanger unusable, which is what is modeled in the game when it blows up. The CV is the same thing. If you want something more realistic, i suggest you start up your own game company and make it.

[Dadsguns]

No, its just absolutely pathetic that this thread has gone so far. Then again i know how much this community likes to beat dead horses, so by all means keep trying to come up with excuses why they lost the CV. If it wouldn't have sunk, they wouldn't have complained about people strafing it. The game is what it is. Strafing has to be legit because there is no way you can stop it from doing damage. What if we had strafed it, and THEN dropped a bomb that killed it. Would it be legit to you then?? People never complain about strafing down a VH. Why is this any different? Do you mean that bullets can make a whole building blow up and disappear all together?? It can certainly make the hanger unusable, which is what is modeled in the game when it blows up. The CV is the same thing. If you want something more realistic, i suggest you start up your own game company and make it.

Wrong again.  

Now I have said my piece as well as others that openly said they misunderstood the rule as it is written.  Dont jump in here with some attitude.

Yes to your second remark, as was previously stated since you chose to read into what you wanted instead of reading the entire post.

Act like you got some respect, you will be treated with respect.

Maybe it WAS gamey. TOO BAD. Gamey things happen in games. Stop crying. This game is obviously very serious to you. I suggest therapy. Someone please lock this thread.

So actions that are gamey, everyone must just suck it up and take it.  Stop crying as you put it.    Not bring it here for discussion... hmm what else cant we talk about to maybe make things better?  

Your perception is off the mark, I would probably suggest therapy to you. 

[BigR]

Wrong again.  

Now I have said my piece as well as others that openly said they misunderstood the rule as it is written.  Dont jump in here with some attitude.

Yes to your second remark, as was previously stated since you chose to read into what you wanted instead of reading the entire post.

Act like you got some respect, you will be treated with respect.

The misunderstanding of the rule isn't the problem. It is your inability to accept what the CMs have told you again and again in this thread.

Your willingness to accept that strafing does any sort of damage at all to the CV negates your entire argument. Saying that you wouldn't mind if we staffed first and then bombed it doesn't make any sense. No matter what order it is done in, the damage is the same. This is like trying to explain how the collision model works. Some people will never accept what you tell them. And yes, I did read your posts, i just wanted you to say it again because its pretty funny.

Im done with this stupid thread.

[Dadsguns]

The misunderstanding of the rule isn't the problem. It is your inability to accept what the CMs have told you again and again in this thread.

Your willingness to accept that strafing does any sort of damage at all to the CV negates your entire argument. Saying that you wouldn't mind if we staffed first and then bombed it doesn't make any sense. No matter what order it is done in, the damage is the same. This is like trying to explain how the collision model works. Some people will never accept what you tell them. And yes, I did read your posts, i just wanted you to say it again because its pretty funny.

Wrong again.  My willingness to accept it does not negate anything.  I simply have to move on.  My point was made and the CM's have spoken to say that it wont change, and that its legit. Case closed.

I completely accept that this game selects what it wants to identify with in history and what it chooses not to.  
Not only with strafing cv's, but other things.  I will save those for a rainy day.  

Not sure what staffed is, but if you meant strafed first, then bombed.  Since the belief that 50cal can kill a cv it would not matter which way it was proposed.  Strafing inflicts damage in this model.  

[FiLtH]

 Man...get some Sand-B-Gon, its seriously inflamed. Wow.

[M36]

No, its just absolutely pathetic that this thread has gone so far. Then again i know how much this community likes to beat dead horses, so by all means keep trying to come up with excuses why they lost the CV. If it wouldn't have sunk, they wouldn't have complained about people strafing it. The game is what it is. Strafing has to be legit because there is no way you can stop it from doing damage. What if we had strafed it, and THEN dropped a bomb that killed it. Would it be legit to you then?? People never complain about strafing down a VH. Why is this any different? Do you mean that bullets can make a whole building blow up and disappear all together?? It can certainly make the hanger unusable, which is what is modeled in the game when it blows up. The CV is the same thing. If you want something more realistic, i suggest you start up your own game company and make it.

Well Mr. BigR, I was looking for an interpretation of a poorly written rule after it was brought up, and apparently so was the original post. And, I was debating it as I read it. To you thats whining? Being my first time in FSO as a CO, and have not been in here for several years, I have a lot to learn. I know you are far above the rest and you know every thing there is know about anything the moment you walk into the door.  Had you done some reading and comprehending you would have gotten that out of my posts.

So, when I have a question about a rule for my understanding, so I can let my squad know about it for further frames, you are telling me to "start my own game company and make it"?

I think I am finished with you. But as a parting note if you dont mind my frankness since you dont mind typing yours. I think you should try to get into some activity to help build your self confindence and work on your insecurities which seems to be your issue since you have come into a thread and make a weak attempt to bash and belittle others which you obviously get pleasure from doing. Im sure your well liked in the office.

BTW, to all the others, I did get a clarification and I will pass it on to the squad. I thinks thats all this thread was about in the first place.

Thanks, out.

[ghostdancer]

This is the rule in questions:

All targets must be attacked within 60 minutes of the start of the frame. They must be attacked with explosive ordinance, (rockets and bombs) by a full squadron. Feints and diversions prior to a larger strike force do not satisfy the requirements of this rule. Simply strafing a target with fighters does not satisfy the requirements of this rule. CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that the main attacks reach their targets by T+60. Administrator CM's may request copies of orders to evaluate the observance of this rule.

Was the enemy TF attacked by T+60? Answer is Yes --> B17s attacked the TF before T+60 and one B17 hit the CV with its bomb load and another B17 hit another ship with some bombs.

Was a full squadron tasked to hit the CV with ordinance? Answer is Yes --> ~364TH C-HAWKS FG~ were tasked to hit the CV. It was their primary mission. One of the their B17s hit the CV and another hit another ship.

Was the enemy TF attacked with explosive ordinance? Answer is Yes --> 1 B17 hit the CV with its bomb load and 1 B17 had several bombs hit another ship.

Was the target simply strafed? Answer is No --> 1 B17 hit the CV with its bomb load and a 2nd B17 hit another ship with some bombs. This occurred before the strafing.

The conditions are clearly stated and were fulfilled by the B17 attack of the ~364TH C-HAWKS FG~ on TF73. They carried 42,000 lbs of ordinance and let loose on the TF73 hitting two ships within T+60.

The Nightmares P40 attack happened after T+60 when they were re-tasked from defense to offense to hit TF73 because ~364TH C-HAWKS FG~ attack did not sink the CV or other ships. It was not their primary mission. They also hit the CV first with 7 x 500 lbs bombs before they started strafing.

[DCCBOSS]

In short drop your ordanance on your assigned target first then you can straf the target, within the corrct time line set by the CM.