Dan! Spitfire fuel question

[SgtPappy]

I know that Spitfires were often modified, especially late in the war, to give a good amount of extra fuel installed.

Spitfire IX's in late 44 or 45 had about 75 IG of fuel installed in the rear fuselage and a Griffon rudder in order to ferry themselves from England to Belgium.

When exactly did Spit IX/XVI/XIV's start carrying this extra fuel in the rear fuselage and were these tanks self sealing? Did Spitfires ever go into combat or enter combat zones with these tanks installed?

I know that Spitfire Vs in Malta sometimes had no choice but to encounter enemies with their rear tanks still installed but those tanks, like the Mk.IX's in '45 were ferry tanks and were not self -sealing. Though I don't know if they were self-sealing just in case in the Mk.IX's.

[Angus]

Dan will probably give this better, more detailed, and corected, but I'll shoot out what is in the back of my head.
The Malta Spitfires (Mk V) flew in with a slipper tank, I think a tad bigger than in AH. That enabled them to do the 600 miles leg from an escort carrier. English miles that is.
There were flights from Gibraltar to Algiers. The flight I know off took place on the 11th of November 1942, - almost precicely 67 years ago.
They carried slipper tanks (I do not know the gallons) and escorted some VIP aircraft en route. That meant stretching it quite a bit since the cruise was not a cruise, but more importantly not the preferred cruise speed of the Spitfire. Not all aircraft made it to the field, but over sea they did.
This was sqn 111. The Spitfires were by then equippen with the Vokes dust filter which increased parasite drag quite a bit, and thereby reduced range.
Hope this is of some use.
All the best

[SgtPappy]

Thanks Angus 
Yea, I can't enough of those Malta stories. My aunt took a trip to the museums and apparently Germans aren't allowed in.. talk about a grudge!

Yes, the Spitfire VB's and VC's flown to Malta flew off carriers with 170 Imperial Gallon slipper tanks under their bellies in addition to a single, non-self sealing 29 Imperial Gallon 'flexitank' in the rear fuselage (the one in-game is only 30 Imp. Gals... Talk about a wide load!). Apparently they needed the Volkes filter not only to prevent sand/stone ingestion but also to cover the enlarged oil tank needed to use the rear-fuselage fuel tank.

Here's a pic of a Spit (lacking the Volkes filter) in Malta, 1942 with a 170 IG tank under the belly. Don't know if this one had the rear-tank. It actually looks like the filter's been replaced with the modified 'Aboukir' filter as the cowling look's a bit distorted.


I was just wondering if the Mk.IX's, when modified with their fuel tanks ever flew those tanks into combat.

[Krusty]

From memory, the topic has been brought up on the forums a couple times before, and I think the answer was "no" -- you might try a search on the forums. It's here somewhere.

[SgtPappy]

I should really get around to using the advanced search more... i couldn't find it with the regular search.

Don't worry Krusty, I always do a search before posting a new thread 

[Krusty]

Well I tried searching as well and didn't run across the first thread I was thinking of. Maybe the "search" button just isn't very good...

[Angus]

Oh, in 1941 Spitfires did "Rhubarb" sorties over Belgium, but I have not heard of those using extra tanks.

[Angus]

By the way, Gibraltar-Algiers makes about 800 kilometers. The Spitfires on that leg had to escort Hudsons on the way, as well as there were Hurricanes too.
From Kent to the Belgian coast it's only 100 km. I recall 111 sqn in operations over Holland,- airfields could have been Debden, Gravesend, North Weald or Kenley, giving a distance of some 200 km's (North Weald to the waterways above Oostende (Oostende to Ghent canals). No mention of extra tanks, aircraft Spit Vb's, time middle or late September 1941.
Those sorties would have combat in mind, that particular flight I refer to had some successfull strafing, an engagement, and a good return, so it gives a good idea about the typical range of that aircraft

[Charge]

"Yea, I can't enough of those Malta stories. My aunt took a trip to the museums and apparently Germans aren't allowed in.. talk about a grudge!"

You mean the museums in Malta? I seriously doubt it. There's even a set of German pilot's decorations on display there donated by the pilot's widow. I don't think they would be set by the section about British pilots if there would still be a grudge about WW2 events.

-C+

[Angus]

I was in Birkenau (Auschwitz II, - the big one) in 1998. There was a group of eldely people there with a very grave look on their faces. Turned out to be Germans.
I could catch a few words they spoke (being German speaking). They were completely horrified.
Anyway, no blockade for the Germans there, - on the contrary.

[Simba]

"It actually looks like the filter's been replaced with the modified 'Aboukir' filter as the cowling look's a bit distorted."

No, the cowling's that shape because the enlarged oil tank fitted to long-range photo-recce Spitfires was also fitted to the Malta Mk.Vs to enable them to reach the island with a safe quantity of oil remaining, hence the 'PR-shaped' deepened nose. Those that survived long enough were refitted with the standard oil tank, stocks of which were delivered separately by ship.

I've got quite a lot of information on the Spitfire here, I'll trawl through it to see if I can find out when the rear fuselage tank was fitted and whether it was flown in combat.

Cheers!

[SgtPappy]

Angus:

Very true. I think the Yanks tend to emphasize the Spitfire's lack of range, but from the missions you just talked about, the Spitfire simply wasn't in dire enough of a situation to receive a fuel load overhaul.

Charge:

Yea, sorry bout that. My aunt visisted a church there, don't know which one... she's got a few pics of it and she told me about Germans not being allowed inside. I wish I had been there though; the travel channel really makes Malta look like th place to live.

Simba:

I actually did some research last night and found that out myself. That larger 9.5 (imperial?) gallon oil tank apparently pushed the chin slightly outward. That bulge in the chin is much smaller than the PR Spitfire chin, however, so I really didn't notice it even being there until I took a careful look. The jerry-rigging engineers in the MTO really did their job well. Those Malta spits look far more aerodynamic than PR Spits despite having an enlarged oil tank. And no ugly Vokes filter to boot!

[RTHolmes]

Maybe the "search" button just isn't very good...

no it isnt - it only searches the sub-forum you are currently in. ie. if you search from this page it will not include results from AH General Discussion, Wishlist, Help and Training etc...  If you want to search the entire forum using simple search, you need to do it from the forum home page. violates a couple of rules for interface design.

[OOZ662]

no it isnt - it only searches the sub-forum you are currently in. ie. if you search from this page it will not include results from AH General Discussion, Wishlist, Help and Training etc...  If you want to search the entire forum using simple search, you need to do it from the forum home page. violates a couple of rules for interface design.

That's never happened to me...and the search link URL doesn't change page-by-page...I have my doubts someone would go to the trouble of using a referrer URL for that, either. Maybe it's an IE thing...

[RTHolmes]

try it - search for "TURBO HYABUSA" from this page, then try it again from the o club section.

the "topic" variable is sent to the search page with the rest of the POST request (should be a GET request too if we're being picky), the search script then uses this to determine which forum to search in. its server-side and therefore browser agnostic.