Author Topic: Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question  (Read 411 times)

Sturm

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« on: March 19, 2001, 08:18:00 AM »
Well I touched up the image you sent to bradys5.  My next big thing does anyone have any info regarding the Platzschutzstaffel of JV44?  I know the info in Dora D-9's Gruenhearts but from what I gather only about a paragraph or so of info on them.
I know they were called the parrot staffel for their coloring, and they flew 5 D-9's and 1 D-11 but what was there unit organization?  I know they all had stenciled personal markings as well.  Anyone that has any relevant info about this please help me out here.  Thanks

Offline Mathman

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2001, 08:56:00 AM »
Heya Sturm,

Happy to help.  JV-44's Platzschutzstaffel is one of the more interesting units (at least in terms of markings).  I am in kind of a rush right now to get to work, but if nobody else posts any other relavent info, I will this afternoon from work.

-math

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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula.  I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot

Sturm

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2001, 09:05:00 AM »
Thanks, I am fascinated by this unit, not for just the planes but the strict orders they had to follow, flying at an alt of 1500 jees  want to talk about the rick of bnz, it makes you wonder maybe they haven't modeled the D-9 the way it should have been?  I do wish we could add our own skins though as the D-9s of PSS were incredible.  Any info can help so I can check it with mine, you never know every little bit helps.  Thanks again.      

Offline Mathman

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2001, 03:55:00 PM »
Ok, here is what I have available to me right now:
It was known as the Sachsenberg Schwarm, after the leader of the "staffel" (not really a staffel as it was not a full strength one).  It was commonly referred to as the Wurger Staffel (after the original name of the 190).  The name "Papageienstaffel" or Parrot squadron, has only been used recently.  It is not believed that it was actually referred to as this, though some references have stated that the call sign "Papagei" may have been used.  

There were 5 doras in the staffel, but only 4 have been positively identified by photos.

"Red 1" was a 190D-9, W. Nr. 600424, and was flown by Lt. Heinz "Heino" Sachsenberg.  He was the leader of the staffel.  On the side of his plane was written "Verkaaft's mei Gewand 'I foahr in himmel!" which means "Sell my clothes, I'm going to heaven!"

"Red 13" was a 190D-9, W. Nr. 213240, and was flown by Oblt. Klaus Faber.  This is believed to have been converted from a 190A-8 due to the early style canopy and some of the markings.  "Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen!" was written on the side of the fuselage.  This means "In he goes even though both of us will cry!"

"Red 3" was a D-9, unknown W. Nr., and it was flown by Hauptman Waldemar Wubke.  This one was recently discovered in photos.  On its side was written "Im Auftrage der Reichsbahn" which means "By order of the State Railway."  The origin of this comes from when Wubke was flying in the Battle of Britain.  The Jagdwaffe was ordered to cary bombs, which upset Wubke.  The bombs arrived on a train marked "by order of the state railway."  Wubke then remarked that bombs should only be carried by trains or bombers.

"Red 4" was a D-11, W. Nr was possibly 170933.  The pilot of this plane is unknown.  It is believed that this may have been Fw 190 V58 which was a prototype for the D-11.  It may also be a production series D-11 with a 220 series W. Nr.  On the side was written "Der nachste Herr dieselbe Dame!"  This means "the next man, the same woman!"

Most of the info that I have is mainly on the planes themselves, which is what I am more interested in for my diorama that I am starting soon.  I do have a book on order that deals with just the doras of JV 44 that should provide some more info.  I have the links and such for it at home, so I can get those to you tonight.

Anyways, I hope this gives you some more information than what you had.

-math

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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula.  I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot

Sturm

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2001, 06:06:00 PM »
Yup that was exactly what I had, the book you are about to get is awesome, I have ordered it but it is rather pricey.  but well worth it.  Thanks for the info, Sach's was an awesome pilot hand picked by galland himself.  The others well they weren't to shabby themselves    Thanks again.

Offline Raubvogel

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2001, 06:16:00 PM »
Here's a good site with info on the Sachsenberg Schwarm. Enjoy.
 http://www.stormbirds.com/schwalbe/wurger/wurger.htm

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Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

Offline brady

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2001, 07:21:00 PM »
 TY Mathman once again for the help  

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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 03-19-2001).]

Offline StSanta

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2001, 11:44:00 PM »
LOL some cool quotes on the planes  

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"

Offline Mathman

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2001, 02:03:00 PM »
Sturm and Brady,

I just recieved my book on the Doras.  There are some excellent photos, particularly of "Red 13."  If you would like, I can scan them for you, or at least point you in the direction of the book.

-math

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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula.  I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot

Sturm

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »
Fire away Mathman, I don't have a scanner, so book pics to me are worth there weight in gold.  Once again thanks, 2 weeeks I get my Dora D-9 book.  Which book did you get?

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

Offline Mathman

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2001, 03:13:00 PM »
The one I have is "Doras of the Galland Circus."  It is by Jerry Crandall.  It has a lot of documentaion on the planes themselves and some info on each of the pilots in the staffel.  The profiles are excellent, some of the best I have seen in terms of clarity and color.  I ordered the book that you did, though I am not sure the place I ordered it from has any more in stock.  If they don't, there are a couple stores nearby that I can get it at.  Anyways, I'll scan some of the better photos for you and email them this weekend.

-math

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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula.  I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot

Offline brady

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2001, 07:36:00 PM »

 TY SIR!

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Offline Naudet

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Mathman TY for the image I have 1 huge question
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2001, 02:12:00 AM »
Hey guys, i have a question about books from Jerry Crandal.

Atm i thinking of ordering

1. Green Hearts First in Combat with the Dora 9 (Library of Eagles)
by Axel Urbanke, et al (Hardcover)  

2. Doras of the Galland Circus (Library of Eagles, Number 1)

3. Yellow 10 : The Story of Fw 190 D-13/R11 W.Nr. 836017 (Library of Eagles 2)


are they worth the money and shipment costs?

[This message has been edited by Naudet (edited 03-28-2001).]