JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting

[morfiend]

Not to mention the perk ords could include the 37mm on the 110G2 also!   

   

[Pongo]

Its not that easy. First off I bet most players waste at least 1/2 their IL2 ammo. If you have less, as in the Hurri-D, you waste less and place your shots better while also taking pains to set them up better. Im guilty of this as well so I speak from experience. The Hurri-D has 30 rounds overall. Place 2 to 4 in the right spots and you'll fatally wound any tank.

Penetration figures reports for the German ammo vary widely. I dont think there was any airborne tank gun in that era that could shoot thru 100mm of armor at 500 m. Certainly not a 37mm one.

It really is just as easy as that.
Weapons that are very hard to use or very hard to land kills in will be very little used.
The 40mm huri is killed by panzer IVs significantly more then it kills panzer IVs. Leaving Ostis and Wirbles out of it. The little 7.92 wins more then the 40mm. So what is a much slower and slower firing and low ammo Stuka going to do? Will the extra hitting power of the individual rounds make up for the much fewer shots and much slower more vulnerable aircraft?
I doubt it.
As cool as it is, it will likley be a hanger queen, the He 129 would be a way better aircraft to add to the game.

[Mister Fork]

He would only need to update one Stuka model (since we only have one) and then add a perked ordnance option for the D-3 to carry the 37mm Flak 18 cannons.  It was historically accurate for the D-3 to carry the 37mm cannon as they did so operationally at Kursk.

ack-ack

Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G.  The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk.  He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine.  The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5.  We have the D-3 variant now.

It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs.  Only 200 or so G variants were ever made.  I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count).  I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.

2 aircraft.

References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.

[Rich46yo]

The only thing I can think of regarding that is perhaps many Hurri-D drivers are augering. I have more then once myself due to broken rudders and getting used to the airplane. Still the Panzer is easy meat for the Hurri-D. You dont have to worry about tank cannons when you B&Z the weak upper armor spots of the tank.

The trick to the Hurri-D is dont try and do to much in one pass. Two well placed rounds is far better then a spray of rounds not well placed. I get within 200m of my target before even shooting and then its a max of 4 rounds. Ive even taken T-34s cleanly with the Hurri-D.

It really is just as easy as that.
Weapons that are very hard to use or very hard to land kills in will be very little used.
The 40mm huri is killed by panzer IVs significantly more then it kills panzer IVs. Leaving Ostis and Wirbles out of it. The little 7.92 wins more then the 40mm. So what is a much slower and slower firing and low ammo Stuka going to do? Will the extra hitting power of the individual rounds make up for the much fewer shots and much slower more vulnerable aircraft?
I doubt it.
As cool as it is, it will likley be a hanger queen, the He 129 would be a way better aircraft to add to the game.

[stephen]

Yeah, the hurri is a sniping aircraft, anything more than two rounds and your likly missing, I used to fly it ALOT for base defence when the ord was down before the intro of the IL-2, and its very effective against parked tanks.

The Ju would see action, I assure you of that...,especialy in my hands.

[Ack-Ack]

Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G.  The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk.  He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine.  The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5.  We have the D-3 variant now.

It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs.  Only 200 or so G variants were ever made.  I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count).  I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.

2 aircraft.

References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.

The Ju 87G-1 was based off the D-3, which is the Stuka model we have in game.  Here is a picture of a G-1, which as you can see from the wing tips is a D-3.



Like I said in my previous post, it would not take two different models to update.  Instead of just giving the option to carry 37mm gondolas on the D-3, just redesignate it as the G-1.  Still accomplishes the same thing without any extra effort other than updating the graphics to AH2 standard and giving it the ordnance package of a 37mm Flak 18 cannon.  The D-3 and the G-1 were the same exact airframes, nothing changed other than those D-3s that were given 37mm's on the field were now officially designated as G-1s, along with the production models that were ordered in '43.


ack-ack

[gyrene81]

Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G.  The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk.  He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine.  The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5.  We have the D-3 variant now.

It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs.  Only 200 or so G variants were ever made.  I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count).  I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.

2 aircraft.

References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.

I don't trust anything written by a Norwegian in Britain more than 50 years after an event...but that's just me.

Not sure what part of Ack Acks post you were focused on but...

I think you forgot a couple of small details...Ju-87D-5 incorporated the Jumo 213 and the wingspan was shortened back to the same length as the D-3 (0.6 meter difference) when the engine was put into production.

Dive brakes were also eliminated on the G models except on those D-3 Stukas that were converted in the field.

Both G-1 and G-2 models were capable of carrying 500 or 1000 pound bombs, and were known to do so when going against armored targets...seems kinda screwy to me but I wasn't in charge then.  

Armor upgrades would not come into play with the modified loadout options in AH since the field modified D-3's didn't have any armor upgrades.


The only real question besides when can we have it, is how much ammo the G-1 carried...according to stories on Rudel:

Rudel was then posted to the new special "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" unit formed at Briansk to test newly developed tank-busting version of Ju-87 D-3.Modified Stuka armed with two Rheinmetall-Borsig 37mm (BK) Flak 18 guns (each mounted in special canopy under each wing with 6 rounds of ammunition) was developed at the Luftwaffe's experimental station at Rechlin (near Neustrelitz, Germany).

I would venture to say that 6 per weapon would be correct and according to the youtube videos posted earlier, both guns fired simultaneously.

[Simba]

"The trick to the Hurri-D is dont try and do to much in one pass. Two well placed rounds is far better then a spray of rounds not well placed. I get within 200m of my target before even shooting and then its a max of 4 rounds. Ive even taken T-34s cleanly with the Hurri-D."

Good shooting, well done. There's a well-known RAF Film Unit short that shows a 6 Squadron Hurricane IID strafing a stationary target, I'll see if I can find it and post it in. Here's the attack procedure as described by the CO of 'Shiny Six' in 'Hurricane At War' by Chaz Bowyer; 1974, Ian Allan, Shepperton, ISBN 0 7110 0564 8:

The attack was started from something like 5,000 feet, putting the aircraft into a dive to achieve 254 mph, which with full throttle could be maintained during the run-in at about 20-40 feet above the ground. Opening with the first pair [of rounds] at about 1,000 yards, two more pairs could be got away accurately before breaking off the attack. It is no exaggeration to say that any good pilot would guarantee to hit his target with one or more pairs on each attack. The tank had little chance of retaliation . . . it took a brave man to fire at a Hurricane screaming in at 254 mph with two machine guns blazing and a slow crack, crack, crack from its big guns.

The 40mm Vickers 'S' guns were fired electro-pneumatically simultaneously as a pair by a push-button incorporated in the throttle lever and made active/safe by a master switch mounted on the decking shelf forward of the throttle. Ammunition was 15 rounds per gun, self-contained within the gun pod. The big guns were one of the arming options on the Hurricane Mk.IV; early Mk.IVs carried 15 rounds but on later Mk.IVs each magazine had a capacity of 30 rounds. Very few, if any, Mk.IVs were so armed in service. The machine guns were fired by the normal gun button mounted on the pilot's spade grip.

 
 

[Slade]

+1 

Please give us a JU87 w\37mm.

Thank you.

[Novice3]

That and any good explanation why we can not up a stuka without any bombs, I got pretty reliable info that stukas where used  to fly patrols over Balkans and strafe Partizans who where hiding in the woods

[gyrene81]

That and any good explanation why we can not up a stuka without any bombs, I got pretty reliable info that stukas where used  to fly patrols over Balkans and strafe Partizans who where hiding in the woods

Take it up and drop the ords when you clear the runway...I do that to change my loadout.

[Mister Fork]

Stttuuukkkaa with big guns . Want it.

[Bronk]

I don't trust anything written by a Norwegian

Good advise there.

[E25280]

Good advise there.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254605.0.html

 

[Bronk]

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254605.0.html