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Author Topic: P-51D Ordnance  (Read 2439 times)

Offline Chalenge

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P-51D Ordnance
« on: November 18, 2009, 10:55:11 AM »
According to the pilots manual the P-51D carried ten (10) HVAR rockets when it didnt carry bombs also and six (6) rockets when it did carry bombs.

Also there were 110 gallon drop tanks possible which were used on the cross-Europe escort missions.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 10:58:22 AM by Chalenge »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: P-51D Ordinance
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 10:56:11 AM »
Ordnance.    It's Ordnance.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: P-51D Ordinance
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 10:58:38 AM »
Quote from: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 10:56:11 AM
Ordnance.    It's Ordnance.

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Offline Simba

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 11:05:09 AM »
"According to the pilots manual the P-51D carried ten (10) HVAR rockets when it didnt carry bombs also and six (6) rockets when it did carry bombs."

Wot, no apostrophes?

 ;)
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2009, 06:47:10 PM »
IIRC, HVAR rockets weren't used all that often by Mustangs.  Think they were primarily used by the Iwo P-51s, though Dan/CorkyJr could provide more detail.


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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 10:08:47 PM »
We've had this discussion before.  The rockets were used a bit in the summer of 45 by the Iwo Mustangs.  They always had to take DTs so they never had more then 3 rockets on each wing.  Even on Korea where they were closer to the front, it was usually bombs and rockets or napalm and rockets, not 10 rockets.

Depending on it being metal or paper the DTs were metal 75, paper 108 or metal 110 gallon tanks.  The 110 gallon tanks are more visible in MTO or PTO photos for what it's worth.  The 108 gallon DTs show up more out of the ETO as they were British made.

Understand when the bombs were loaded, no DTs are.  I've yet to see any photos of USAAF Mustangs in the ETO or MTO carrying rockets.  The only ones I've seen are on the Iwo Mustangs

1000 pounder on an Iwo Mustang.


The most heavily loaded Mustang I've ever seen in a WW2 photo.  2 P38 style DTs and 6 rockets.  Again it's a really late in the war Iwo based 51.
Those are 165 gallon DTs.
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 10:31:33 PM »
Wouldn't mind the 110 gal DT's. Would let me carry another 25% less fuel on my usual flights.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2009, 10:48:52 PM »
Just because you dont have a photo of it doesnt mean it didnt happen. It IS specifically mentioned in the P-51 pilots manual after all.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 10:56:07 PM »
Quote from: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 10:48:52 PM
Just because you dont have a photo of it doesnt mean it didnt happen. It IS specifically mentioned in the P-51 pilots manual after all.

 :banana:
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 11:07:22 PM »
Quote from: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 10:48:52 PM
Just because you dont have a photo of it doesnt mean it didnt happen. It IS specifically mentioned in the P-51 pilots manual after all.

LOL, fair enough.  What's the date on your 51 manual?  Mine's dated after the USAAF became the USAF and is more geared to the 50's era.  Understand that pilot's manuals were updated over time as things were adjusted or improved.

What a particular plane really did, vs what they could possibly do, is more important to me.  Find me an image, a combat report or someone's memoirs from WW2 talking about carrying 10 rockets, and I'll support it in game.  Until then, if it was up to me, I'd like HTC to go with what was done historically.

Of course it's not up to me :)

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Offline Chalenge

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 12:33:26 AM »
USAAF Manual 51-127-5 page 43
Quote
... The P-51D series are equipped to carry ten 5-inch zero rail rockets five under each wing. Each rocket is supported at nose and tail...
Four of the rockets are installed close to the bomb racks. Consequently when bombs or droppable tanks are attached to the racks only six rockets can be carried three on each wing.

The same information is in the "P-51D Fighter Airplanes" text by North American Aviation Inc. (pg 137).

There are a lot of other interesting facts like the control reversal with a full fuselage tank (pg 67)... the self-destruct switch for the IFF (pg 34)... and the tail warning radar...
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 01:04:58 AM »
For what it's worth, I'm not arguing the 51 couldn't carry a full load of rockets.  I'm saying I've found no evidence it was ever carried that way operationally.  Again this is because it was the Iwo Mustangs and they had to take DTs to make it to the Japanese homeland.

Check the date on your manual as well as if it's mentioning tail warning radar it's a late in the war update as that system showed up early 45 in the ETO and can again be seen on the Iwo Mustangs in mid to late 45.

And to reiterate outside of some RAF MTO Mustangs being fitted with the rocket rails similar to what the Tiffie carried, there is no documentation or photos showing a rocket rail installation on an ETO operational USAAF Mustang.  The Iwo Mustangs got them in the summer of 45 which would have been after VE Day

It's the same with the 38s in the ETO MTO.  Nothing in any Group history or photo showing rockets being used.  It was 500 or 1000 pounders.  Again very limited use of the rocket tree on the 38L in the PTO for a time during the operations over the Phillipines.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 01:12:47 AM »
Yes Im aware the pilots manual is August 1945 but the NAA text is a year earlier. I am also aware that looking for evidence in hindsight is not always possible.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 09:22:56 AM »
Quote from: Chalenge on November 19, 2009, 01:12:47 AM
Yes Im aware the pilots manual is August 1945 but the NAA text is a year earlier. I am also aware that looking for evidence in hindsight is not always possible.

That I don't believe for a second.  With all the unit histories, photos, Mustang information etc out there, if there is proof of 10 HVAR rockets loaded out for WW2 combat, you can find it.  Again the Iwo birds appear to be the 51s that got rockets.  And due to the range issues, they had to carry DTs meaning no more then 6
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Offline Karnak

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Re: P-51D Ordnance
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2009, 01:16:38 PM »
I can show photos of Mossies with two DTs and eight rockets....   :P
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