Which fighter has the longest range for high-alt escort?

[Mister Fork]

P-47D-11 ... $59,936
P-47D-25 ... $80,000
P-47D-40 ... $83,500
P-47N ... $87,000
P-51B ... $47,500
P51D ... $50,000

From two months of research....

These costs are actuals.

[bj229r]

Did we have to PAY Britain for each Merlin we put in the 51, or was there some sort license deal worked out? Aside from that, is a radial engine for complex than an inline water-cooled?

[Krusty]

Every engine is different... But generally speaking the radial was less complex, and the inline (water cooled) had more components..

HOWEVER, the giant radial on the jugs had more metal in it, more weight, and a giant, large, complex turbosupercharger, whereas the P51 had a simple 2-stage supercharger.

Not just engines dictate costs, though... Sheer weight is on the Jug's side. That weight is made up of metals, composites, millions of things that had to be built and installed. That's all part of the cost.

[lyric1]

The answer to the question is that a P 51D cost around $50,000, and a late P 47D/N was not quite twice that, but around $85,000 . By the time Korea came around we still had plenty of 51s around to allow for attrition/replacements. Not so with the T-Bolts.

Keep in mind Australia was making P51's as well so those would have been cheaper again than the US made aircraft & they didn't have as far to haul them to get them in to combat. I am not sure if USAF units used Australian made pony's during Korea or not?

[bozon]

...
The TA-152 is significantly faster on mil settings than the jug on mil, not sure how they compare maneuverability-wise at that altitude though, you probably know far better than me.  Personally i prefer the WEP on the 152 than the Jug - I think the N-Jug is a dumptruck without it.

Spitfire XIV is also faster on mil, and has better climbrate at 30k even without wep.

The N is an afterburner bird. Without it, it is not much different from an early 1944 bubble top model (slightly better roll rate and more fuel) and performance is very similar to the 1943 razorbacks. It is mostly the mega-WEP that kicks it forward. With WEP, at 30,000 ft it is over 20 mph faster than the spit 14 and 10 mph faster than Ta152, which is the only plane that is really close in range and performance.

Also, keep in mind that the numbers in AH performance charts are with 100% internal fuel. To get an impression of how much fuel this is - it is enough to fully fuel 5 109s and have some to spare. The internal fuel load of Ta-152 is half of the Jug-N (260 vs. 550 gal). Jugs are incredibly inefficient in fuel usage. I am reading a book about De-Havilland and it is amazing how concerned they were with optimizing miles times ordnance weight per gallon. The N jug is a brute force solution to a problem. Enough brute force works sometimes.

[Chalenge]

Did we have to PAY Britain for each Merlin we put in the 51, or was there some sort license deal worked out? Aside from that, is a radial engine for complex than an inline water-cooled?

The Merlins in the P-51 are built by Packard under license.

[Chalenge]

A quick look at...

What a monster! I may have to spend some time with this toy! 

[crutch]

there is a lot of mythology about the escorts in WWII that basically cover up the infighting between bomber command and fighter command.

when the first P47s came to the ETO (C-5s and D-5s thru D10s) there wasnt any real provisions for external tanks.  that naturally cut the range down to the minimum.

the PTO was crying for fighters and took any being offered.  they got some of the early P47s. being in the pacific, they needed longer range for the fighters so a lot of 'battlefield' mods were created using P38 tanks.

even then DTs were limited to center line moungtings - the wings have to be strengthened to take the weight.  a side benefit was being able to hang bombs from those new stronger wings.

by the time Jugs were fitted with three DTs the job was being transfered to the P51s and the Jugs were switching to the tactical ground support role.

so, you can see that a Jug not being able to escort the bombers 'all the way' has many shades and 'truths' to it.

high command made the decisions and the bomber crews had to live with it.

[Chalenge]

P-38s are mentioned escorting B-29s and of course the P-51s but I have not seen anything on P-47s at Tinian or Saipan

[Stoney]

P-38s are mentioned escorting B-29s and of course the P-51s but I have not seen anything on P-47s at Tinian or Saipan

The Jugs used in the Marshalls were D models.  P-47Ns used to escort B-29's were based on Iwo Jima and Ie Shima. 

[Chalenge]

Yes of course I didnt really think they operated out of the tiny Islands the B-29s did. For one thing there just isnt room.

[SectorNine50]

Don't the Pony's use somewhere around 1/2 the fuel over the same distance that the 47's do?  I feel like that would be a pretty big factor.  Also isn't the 47's cruise speed about 1/2 that of the Pony's?

I'm just asking, I'm unsure if that is still true at those altitudes, never actually taken a 47 up there in-game.  However I think this seems to be true around 15k.

[Chalenge]

Fuel goes further by altitude and airspeed goes up. The P-51s in AHII are usually at full power while in TRW they would usually be no higher than 50" hg and in cruise power no higher than 41" hg. The average fuel burn on the P-51D should be 60 gph. The P-51 actually has a fuel return line running either to the left wing tank or fuselage tank with up to 10 gph of unburned fuel being fed back to that tank so you would chose that tank first or fuel would be streaming behind you and causing a hazard for you. Also the plane has control reversing with the fuselage tank above the 25 gallon level and so with either that tank full or external tanks you would not be doing any heavy turns (although once you get used to the control reverse its not hard to fly it is uncomfortable and wears you out over time). So you burn the fuselage tank down to 25 gallons and then burn external tanks and when they are empty your fuselage tank should have as much as 50 gallons (considering 75 gallon externals).

I do not believe this is what happens online but I have not tested it to make sure. Hitech may have modified the fuel burn rate instead of incorporating fuel return I dont know.

[crutch]

the P47 also has a return line to the main tank.

SOP is to run off the main for about 10 mins every hour to keep it from filling and losing fuel out the overflow dump.

the P47-N with both wing DTs and the centerline DR had a longer range than a P51-D with drop tanks.

however the P51 had a higher cruise speed than the P47.

[Spikes]

This can be confusing, heheh. It seemed that in the defensive role of the buff run, there were a lot of Ponies, P47M's, and 152's. Since we were in D40's, we had a bit less range. While I was gliding back to base (ditched 3 miles short) a 47N whizzed by me clearing me of enemy fighters. Maybe next time I will try the 51D for escorting long range, though.